Talk:Commission of National Education

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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day... section on October 14, 2006, October 14, 2007, and October 14, 2008.

Contents 1 Title 2 Error 3 Another Error 4 Rename

[edit] Title

Is it really true that KEN translates into "Commission of National Education" and not "Commission on National Education? Appleseed 01:49, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

I think 'of' is right. 'On' would probably require Polish tekst to be 'Komisja ds. Edukacji Narodowej', where 'ds.' stands for 'do spraw'. At least that's my gut feeling. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 14:39, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Concur. Another possibility would be "Commission for National Education." But "Commission of National Education" both is metaphrastically correct and has "precedents" in terms such as "Ministry of Foreign Affairs" and "Ministry of Defense." logologist 15:15, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Error

What is the "eastern voivodships of Poland (former Grand Duchy of Lithuania)"? The GDL wasn't incorporated into Poland, it just had lesser rights in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Also, instead of saying the it was "the central educational authority in Poland", it should say that it was "the central educational authority in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth,".—Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.245.229.35 (talk • contribs)

Indeed, you are mostly right, although I'd point out that GDL was incorporated (with significant autonomy) into PLC, just as Crown has been.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  16:30, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

well, there was not a such thing as "autonomy", GDL had it's full blown army, government and treasury. i'd stick on the last one as an argument. Simply because as "authonomic", as Piotrus did just state, state had a duty to fight against Russia, Sweden and other agressors without receiving a penny from Polish Crown. Sadly after centuries have passed Polish people decided, that all the victories are Polish, and all the victims (who remain in silence) do not count. So GDL who was bleeding badly (literally) (Lithuania, Belarus, and to some extent Ukraine) became "strona chlopska", and the land which did not spend a penny to GDL army now does an enemy bodycount and says - we were the ones, and those "chlopy" were not some sort of heroes, Crown was. Gosh.--Lokyz 23:26, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

If I could make the heads or tails from your post I'd reply, but unfortunatly I am afraid I cannot. I will just note that for years I have been arguing for use of 'Polish-Lithuanian' adjective on Wikipedia in relation to PLC. Unfortunatly in most of English literature only 'Polish' is used, and most editors follow this custom.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  02:24, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another Error

The article states, that the University/Academy of Warsaw was part of the system and in the 2nd phase (1781-1788) "even granted the right of curatorship over schools of lower degree", but the linked University of Warsaw was founded in 1816. --134.93.47.103 (talk) 23:29, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rename

Ok, this should be easy. Per "use English" doctrine this should be at Commission of National Education. If no objections are raised in a few days, I will move it. Renata (talk) 02:57, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree in principle, but as shown in #Title (and by our current lead, which uses "National Educational Commission" for some reason), which English name is the most popular? If you can show that one name is more popular than all others (including the Polish one as used in English sources) I will support the move. Otherwise I think keeping the original makes sense.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 05:09, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Just check "what links here" and you will see that Commission of National Education is the most popular English version. And I believe it's correct grammatically (it also eliminates ambiguity as to where "national" belongs - to commission or education). Renata (talk) 05:34, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Most popular on Wikipedia is no proof of much, I am afraid. Otherwise our job would be too easy :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 15:51, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Google books:

1. "Komisja Edukacji Narodowej": 672 (but of the first 100 only 5 in English - 3 of them translate it as Commission of National Education and one as National Education Council
2. "Commission of National Education" + Poland: 218 and pretty much all of it in English
3. "National Education Council" + Poland: 8
4. "Commision for National Education": 3
5. "National Education Commision" + Poland: 0

It's very clear. Renata (talk) 16:13, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

• • Commission of National Education refers to the Commission of National Education in Ireland set up in 1831 (~10 hits) and the Commission of National Education Association in the U.S. (4 hits) among others. --207.102.64.217 (talk) 00:27, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
    • "Commission of National Education" Poland 1773 gives 81 results. There might be ambiguity, but that's why WP has disambiguation pages. There is no doubt that the article is know in English as "Commission of National Education". Renata (talk) 00:55, 25 February 2008 (UTC)