Talk:Succession of states
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Although the succession of states theory can be criticized for being undemocratic, it has not been obliviated (at least in practice) by the self-determination clause of the United Nations charter.
[edit] Succession of states theory in sports?
Is the Succession of states theory used in sports? Example: Are all the prices won by the USSR today in the headquarters of Russian sports federations (I mean the cups, the players have the medals).
[edit] Disputed: Contradiction in content
Succession of states has no real evidence besides in the field of international recognition and properties that require the consent of others. There is nothing here that supports a lot of what is said in the top half of the article. Where are the references? The only thing here is participation of international organizations and recognition by other countries (such as is explicitly stated by the Vienna Treaty). The first part appears to be... well... bullshit.
[edit] So-called undiscussed edits
I made my edits piecemeal and with several comments in addition to pointing out above that the article's information was contradictory as well as unsourced. It is in general disagreement with what is found in the top matches according to Google. Jiang has a very particular POV view regarding Chinese/Taiwanese politics that my clarifications here may upset. His motivations for reverting me--I urge my fellow wikipedians to decide.
[edit] Page Move
I'd do it, but apparently I'm too new. See the following sets of results from Google [1] (over 10,000 hits) versus [2] (over 1,000 hits, top hits are wikipedia and wikipedia "syndicators").Moveapage 09:57, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
- I don't really see any reason to do it, and the Google stats aren't terribly convincing to me. Why do you think this would be beneficial? CRGreathouse (t | c) 02:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Merge proposal
Three articles (Succession of states, Successor state, and Predecessor state) have been marked for merger for a very long time, but have had no discussion. I hereby propose to do it. The result would be more complete and better understood. More like an encyclopedia, less like a dictionary. Any comments? Hult041956 23:17, 19 October 2007 (UTC) (corrected a misspelling my own previous comment Hult041956 23:18, 19 October 2007 (UTC) )
- I placed the tags for merge initially, and of course I still support it. I regret, however, that I missed the opportunity to raise this on the talk page before. I think that in a complete article, we will be able to cover the "succession of states" under the three different fields where the concept is commonly invoked (1) international law (who gets the UN seat?), (2) historiography (which ancient civilization influenced this later civilization?) and (3) romantic nationalism (we consider our newly independent nation as a revival of our ancestors' glorious history)--Pharos 19:05, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
- I did the merge today. Essentially I cut & pasted everything from "Successor state" and "Predecessor state" into this article. I did a some blending in, a bit of copy editing, and deleted some redundancy, but not much else. I have hardly achieved anything like the article you suggest. Perhaps at least, we now have a single foundation for that article to be built upon. Hult041956 23:12, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] More info?
I'd like to find more info on this subject. Does anyone have any suggested reading? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.211.110 (talk) 20:47, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Germany's case
I remember East Germany never quite believed it to be a successor state to the Third Reich. It regarded itself as a completely new "workers and farmers state" that is of German culture. West Germany did consider itself the latest successor government of the German nation. --JNZ (talk) 21:13, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] PRC's succession of the ROC
I think it is still a contentious assertion that PRC has indeed succeeded the ROC. Given that and Wikipedia's NPOV policy, I think we should point that out instead of just treating it as a conclusive matter. --Pyl (talk) 08:33, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] United States becomes United States?
I don't think that a country that has simply altered it's constitution, yet kept it's name, should be regarded as a successor state to itself. The United States has never been a succeeded state, and if it was, it was when British, French, Spanish colonies, and Iroquois and other native nations amalgamated/absorbed into what was the United States. The Articles of Confederation altered the relationship between the states, but the country itself did not accede, or change it's status, because of it. Another possible scenario is the Civil War, when the CSA formed and then repatrioted the union. Or perhaps the gradual replacement over the past half century of the USA by the American Empire? Any of these are more reasonable successor state periods than the Articles of Confederation. That was just legal mumbo-jumbo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MisplacedFate1313 (talk • contribs) 17:09, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Scotland, Ireland and Wales
I know the list of examples is only a list of examples but I notice only England is mentinoed as a predecessor state of the UK what about the other nations/countries/constiuent countries of the "British Isles" especially as The modern Republic of Ireland is a sucessor of Eire a successor of the Irish Free State a successor of Great Britain and Ireland etc. Penrithguy (talk) 21:33, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Examples of succession
This list should be deleted. It is an example farm and does not serve any purpose. Better to have a small list in paragraph form that list pertinent points about successor states, and which have citations to back them up. For example how Russia finally paid off the outstanding debts of the Russian Empire, which for political reasons the Soviets had refused to do.
- "Following the dissolution of the Soviet Union on December 25, 1991, Russia was internationally recognised[15] to be the legal successor to the Soviet state on the international stage. To that end, Russia voluntarily accepted all Soviet foreign debt, and claimed overseas Soviet properties as its own. To prevent subsequent disputes over Soviet property, "zero variant" agreements were proposed to ratify with newly independent states the status quo on the date of dissolution. (Ukraine is the last former Soviet republic not to have entered into such an agreement.) The end of the Soviet Union also raised questions about treaties it had signed, such as the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty; Russia has held the position that those treaties remain in force, and should be read as though Russia were the signatory." (Soviet Union#Foreign relations)
--Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 15:44, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
[edit] West Germany
Officially and at popular level, in Germany itself today's Germany is regarded as the continuation of pre-reunification West Germany rather than a successor state (for examples of popular-level German perception, in 1999 Konemann published a pictorial popular history book named 50 Years of the Germany). I believe many foreign countries do not recognize this claim and consider West Germany as entirely different entities. Does anyone have information pertaining to this? --JNZ (talk) 12:11, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
