Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests

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Editor Assistance: Requests

Shortcuts: WP:EAR WP:RFEA The description of the issue with which you need help should be concise and neutral. If you are asking about an article that was deleted, please provide the exact title so that we can check the deletion log. Please avoid copying large quantities of article text to this page. Remember to sign your posts. Please click here to post your request. As always, please do not include an e-mail address or other private details.

If you would like quick access to some advice for the most common questions and issues, this can can be found in the Editor Assistance FAQ. Resolved, stale and other old discussions are archived, but if you need to return to an archived discussion, you can start a new section and note the old discussion. Assistants: Please tag each settled request as {{resolved}}; all other requests should be marked as {{stale}} after approximately five to seven days of inactivity. A thread can be archived after being tagged for two days.

Contents 1 Requesting help in keeping information from being blanked out in Sathya Sai Baba 2 Trying to stop unverifiable personal opinions 3 Unschool 4 dispute with an administrator 5 Simranjit_Singh_Mann 6 Wiki entry - rewritten for Wold News Network 7 someone look at "Flux Pumping" as and advert or just needing citations in textt. 8 Other issues Human rights in the U.S. - regional - New Orleans, Louisiana and Los Angeles, California 9 Redirection 10 Dispute About "Elevator Pitch" Entry 11 =Asistence 12 Why was my article rejected? 13 editing loop about Madeleine Pickens age 14 Lord Selkirk Elementry School 15 Charles_Joseph_Fletcher 16 continuous unjust undo of edits! 17 Lauren Willig 18 Editing dispute on Taiwan Major League (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) 19 help with Asmahan dispute! 20 dispute creation attribution 21 Meet the Deedles Falsities 22 factual updates to your pages constantly removed 23 Resolved - disputed attribution for creation of article 24 political john russell article keeps getting deleted 25 Corbin Chamberlin 26 ACN Inc edit war 27 Wes Anderson article cleanup 28 12 Tribes related edits by Chezikah 29 Trying to update our businesses wiki entry but am being told that I can edit the current entry. 30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamid_Arabnia 31 User Supreme Deliciousness Removing Sourced Information 32 James DeVone: sniff test 33 COI and Copyright issues 34 Craig Sherman 35 bravo 36 Links to my website 37 Help with Dispute Resolution 38 Editor keeps deleting my posts 39 Jury Duty 40 Edit dispute on Project 86 page 41 Wiki Page title: "On First looking into Chapman's Homer. 42 Europabio 43 Help requested to add Template documentation 44 false prophets repeated deletion without comment 45 Disposophobia vs Compulsive Hoarding.

[edit] Requesting help in keeping information from being blanked out in Sathya Sai Baba

Sathya Sai Baba (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Sathya Sai Baba is a very controversial topic in India. All coverage of the individual in reputable western media has been strongly critical. In Sai Baba related pages on wikipedia we are facing some major issues, which I attempt to outline below.

• Continual blanking of critical and well sourced information by IPs, newly registered editors and people who apparently consider sai baba their god ( which can be evidenced by several comments to the effect on the article's talk). This blanking happens completely in violation of wikipedia policies. Some of the recent edit comments include: "I know that the changes I made where right"[1], "I add \ed thta because I know what to do"[2], "I changed it because this is offensive to a lot of people, and it isn't even true"[3], "My dad was in Puttaparthi his whole life and this never happened"[4]- just to point out a few. It is quite difficult, if not completely impossible, to engage in rational arguments with people making changes with "rationale" like these. THese edits were reverted but there are many more - which involve blanking of information, addition of advertisement like conent etc. which are hard to handle.

• Section blanking, deletion of clips revealing cheating in purported miracles( which can be seen in this version: [5])- the article is continually subject to such attacks. And the way the people who want the info out work make it impossible to fix these without getting quickly reverted and attacked.
• "Info", self-advertisement by any standard, sourced directly to the controversial sai baba organization cover entire sections now. All this material is completely in violation of WP:RS.
• Slander and attack against neutral editors. Almost 100% of info from respectable sources on this person is critical in nature - be it The BBC, The Guardian, The Times or The DTV. Editors adding well sourced material are targeted by and slandered by the Sai Baba group on their websites and blogs. Which makes many editors scared to contribute to the article and just stay away from it.[6]. Even people like Robert Priddy have had their character assassinated by the group's lies and propaganda. I had personally used an alternate account, of which I had informed the arbcom, to edit the article. Mainly because it is an extremely controversial topic in India and there have been attempts at life on many critics including elderly people[7]. People related to the sai baba organization had an SPI slyly raised against me to ascertain my identity. The admin, initially confused my alternate account for a sock and ended up revealing my details. Later investigations revealed that my alternate account was just a legitimate alternate account and was never used in an abusive manner - and thus my account was unblocked. I was further attacked by editors who wanted me not contributing to the namespace - which led to me deciding to stop contributing to the article. Recently I was taken aback by how all well sourced information was being removed and replaced with self-sourced praise and attempted to point out the issue on talk and fix it - with little effect. Even if I try to re-add the well sourced info - it would just be quickly blanked again.

Dilip rajeev (talk) 17:28, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Without knowing anything about the topic, I liked the first paragraph as it follows essentially what I was suggesting ( based on personal opinion) about describing food controversies,

""Sathya Sai Baba (Telugu: సత్య సాయి బాబా), born Sathyanarayana Raju on November 23, 1926 [1][2] with the family name of "Ratnakaram",[3] is a controversial South Indian guru, religious leader and orator. He is described by his followers as a godman and miracle worker.[1][4][5]""

but presumably with the addition of a one sentence summary such as , " but his critics contend he is something almost libelous[n,n+1,n+2....n+m]."

Is there anything you can say that is factually easy to document ( satements of opinon by notable groups constitute facts about their opinion, " the Trogolodyte Club says he is a CIA operative[] ") that gives a reader the critical evaluation?

Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 17:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

This version of the article contains the well sourced criticism that is being shoved under the carpet by a set of users. It would be of great help if editors could see that the well sourced content in there is not blanked out with misleading edit comments or manufactured excuses. I would very much revert to save this info but I am afraid I've already reverted a few times today. I sincerely request editors here to please help save this content. Dilip rajeev (talk) 18:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I would like to add that the amount of criticism in the article is astounding, especially for a BLP. The general agreement on the talk page was to find info that Dilip had removed (as white_adept) and re-add it, to expand his biography and teaching sections, and to cut the criticism into a well sourced, but smaller, section. There is currently an ongoing edit war between Dilip, Sbs108, and Radiantenergy about re-adding videos that were initially added without a consensus, and were removed pending an agreement about having them on the page, as well as info about SSB's charitable organizations and such. [8][9]. The revision of January 3, 2009 shows just how much criticism Dilip has added to the article. [10] The criticism isn't being "shoved under the rug", it is being cut down to the standards set for a BLP. Thanks, Onopearls ^(t/c) 18:50, 12 June 2009 (UTC) I withdraw my reply. I have no opinion on the SSB article. Thanks, Onopearls ^(t/c) 03:38, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok, assuming the sources are credible and fairly represented, it doesn't sound like the existence of these allegations is disputed, "Allegations of sexual abuse, deceit, murder and financial offences surround" any more than there is dispute that lots of people seem to worship him. I'm keeping the discussion here because I'm also trying to keep it general. You would think that in many controversies with non-frivolous viewpoints represented, that a simple statement of "A thinks B about subject while C thinks D is more accurate about subject." In this case, it isn't really either or as financial and sexual crimes are culturally determined, most people believe that deception and taking of human life can be justifiable. So, this people who worship him may or may not see these are problems. My only point here is to avoid moralizing and try to stick with facts. If the sources say he engages in some notable sex practices, why should that be less relevant than his "miracles" which presumably would be difficult to state as fact in articles on unfavorable religions in the West?

Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 02:29, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

The fact that there are allegations is not disputed. People have leveled allegations against Sai Baba his entire life.The question is how much relevance should be given to them. Nothing has been proven and there has never been any case brought against Sai Baba anywhere in the world at any time except for the Alaya Rahm case in California which was self dismissed. The point is he remains innocent as nothing has even been proven. His hospitals and schools remain open and are thriving. He still has an enormous following estimated between 6-50 million worldwide (which even critics admit). There has been a vigorous, viscious and high profile campaign to defame Sai Baba by a few ex-devotees who still maintain attack web-sites with all kinds of suspect information unsuitable to Wikipedia standards. Many of those same ex-devotees have been intimately involved with the Sai Baba Wikipedia article using it as a mouthpiece for their views while at the same time claiming that the article is an advertisement for the Sathya Sai Baba Organization when anything positive is added. One user Andries who maintained and still may maintain an attack web-site, has already been banned from editing the article. These editors have continually tried to turn the article into an extension of their attack web sites. The user who brought this issue, Dilip_Rajeev, made over 140 edits in a 10 day period without discussion under the name White_Adept (inactive user account 001)turning what was a decent article into a total assualt against Sai Baba. See here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sathya_Sai_Baba&offset=20090123041112&limit=500&action=history. Please review user Dilip_Rajeev's edits between January 8, 2009 until January 18, 2009 to get an accurate picture of where this user wants to take the article.Please review the article as it stood before the onslaught of edits by this user. The article is currently under protection and needs the assitance of at least three admins to oversee the article from this point forward as it has already undergone two arbitrations.Sbs108 (talk) 17:59, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

If the article is under protection and has gone through two arbitrations, I don't know why Dilip Rajeev is bringing this article to our attention here. It obviously has enough attention. Is this a case of forum shopping? --C S (talk) 19:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Trying to stop unverifiable personal opinions

Enfield Town F.C. (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

As you can see from (my talk page) and (the talk page for Ericsback), I am having problems keeping him from replacing personal opinions (mainly re the formation of Enfield Town FC and its similarities to AFC Wimbledon and FC United of Manchester). I have tried adding to the talk page for Enfield Town FC in the hope of stopping this. I don't want to ban people from editing the Enfield Town page and I don't care about information being put on there which isn't "pro-ETFC" so long as it can be verified. I don't want to get into an edit war but unless Ericsback learns that when I have pointed him to The five pillars of Wikipedia I did so for a reason, this is just going to go round in circles.

Just for the record, some of the personal opinions which I have deleted from the Enfield Town FC Wikipedia page turned up on the Enfield (1893) F.C. page but someone from Enfield (1893) appears to have removed them.

How can I stop this continual vandalism without denying someone else the right to include verifiable content (whether I like that content or not).

-- Jancyclops (talk) 15:47, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I would be inclined to place warnings at each instance of inserting unsourced material and if the other editor carries on, then report at WP:AIV. I have placed one warning on the user talkpage. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:01, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I basically agree with this procedure, though you need to be careful to avoid falling victim to accusations of edit warring. There are some very specific situations where 3RR doesn't apply, and I don't see this is one of them. WP:BURDEN of course pretty plainly applies here, and I don't see any dispute that those sections are unsourced. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 19:07, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I think I am going to need help with this. I am fairly new to Wikipedia and I don't want to get struck off for removing what are no more than unverifiable opinions. Ericsback starts one paragraph with the words, "Another reason cited by many fans who remained loyal to the original club at the time of the split was that the Enfield Town supporters," but he doesn't source that comment. This is one of the comments which he put on the Enfield (1893) F.C. page. Since it was removed, he hasn't bothered reposting this stuff to that page. He definitely appears to have an axe to grind. On 25th May he said on my talk page, "I have no axe to grind with anyone, but have been accused of "vandalism" of the ETFC page, so I have to say that if ensuring that the truth is brought out into the open then I am an unashamed vandal. If you, or anyone else wants to contact me through wikipedia, then I am more than happy to speak to them because as I say, I have no axe to grind with anyone, just a desire to see that the true facts are brought out into the open, no matter how unpleasant some, yourself included, may find them." The emphasis is mine. Now, if he could cite references for what he is posting on the ETFC page I don't care how anti-ETFC his comments would be. However, he will not cite sources because he can't.

The fact of the matter is that most people in the Enfield area either don't know the reasons for the split, don't care about the reasons for the split, don't even know there has been a split (it doesn't help that the old Enfield FC was referred to as Enfield Town FC even in legal documents!), or some combination of those. Unfortunately if you say you follow a non-League club you are likely to be asked what your proper club is. The fact is there aren't "many fans" of either club!

The facts of the matter are plainly spelled out in documents from Supporters Direct which are cited as sources on the ETFC Wikipedia page. To suggest, as Ericsback is doing, that that view is only held by a minority is simply an unverifiable opinion.

He has obviously totally ignored the warning posted on his talk page by Jezhotwells. He doesn't know how to cite references by the look of it. He removed one of mine and then added in "[1]" as if that will give the reference. He has also reposted content relating to a libel case which is actually untrue. He says, "the club were also successfully sued by Costas Sophocleous, the then Chairman of Leyton FC, over false allegations made against him on a website." I must remove this because it isn't what happened at all. The true reason for the libel suit is in the club history section.

I really want to stop what is in my opinion unverifiable nonsense from being posted to the Enfield Town FC page. I don't want to get someone else banned unless absolutely necessary. Apologies for the length of this reply but I have now been accused of being "Kommandant of Stalag luft 13" for insisting on content which agrees with The five pillars of Wikipedia by someone who previously said, "However, this is Wikipedia, not Pravda," without apparently realising the irony of that comment! -- Jancyclops (talk) 19:47, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Unschool

Stratosphere (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

User:Unschool promotes unsourced material on wikipedia, could you see to that he doesn't do that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.156.124.213 (talk) 04:04, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

First of all, when you come here with an accusation, you are expected to support it with links to the article in question and diffs of the edits being challenged. Another name for it is evidence. Secondly, you should first discuss the issue on the talk page of the article concerned or with the editor. I presume you are referring to Unschool's removal of your "references needed" tags in the Stratosphere article. This does not mean Unschool inserted the original material and in any case Unschool has merely changed the style of the tagging, not removed it altogether. SpinningSpark 08:07, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I made two edits to the article in question. In one of them[11], I merely corrected a syntactical error by whomever had placed the tag which caused the tag to read as follows: This June 2009 does not cite any references or sources. I think the tagger had been trying to place the date in the tag as he has seen others do, but the actual effect was to create the above non sequitur. In the other edit[12], I corrected the same error on a general tag, but also moved the tag to a less obstructive position, because a) there was already the same tag on a section, so I thought it redundant, and b)because the tag falsely claimed that there were no sources in the article. In its less conspicuous location, I felt, the article would still appear on any lists of articles needing sourcing, but it would not overly denigrate the article.

I would, of course, appreciate it if the anon editor would bring his concerns to me personally, so that we could have cleared these things up. For the record, no, I do not promote the use of unsourced material on Wikipedia. Unschool 17:57, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] dispute with an administrator

National Holiday (Quebec) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

I am a scholar who has attempted to add to this wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Holiday_(Quebec)

Now, though you might not be familiar with Quebec, imagine Israel and Palestine, without all the military. It is a similar situation. Thankfully, I am not from here, I am an American living here and I have become informed about this holiday by living here, observing, and talking to hundreds of people. And also reading. What I have learned in my years here is that instead of discuss the veracity of a situation, people tend to explode and scream, or in the case of Wikipedia, my entry has been removed many times over despite my having asked that this be resolved together.

In this wiki entry I have referred to many well-known blogs, nationally and locally recognized newspapers and still this is removed. Moreover, I don't appreciate threatening comments made by FisherQueen, nor do I appreciate the insults he/she has thrown my way. But the entire basis of this entry is factual, I have included many citations and I would like this dispute resolved because I haven't the energy to be insulted by this person any longer. Might I add that I don't think it ought to be the job of administrators to threaten and censure and I do take issue with type of behaviour.

Mind you, I am balancing out a very long Wiki entry that I could easily dispute with the very same arugments that the administrator gave me (ie. note the paragraphs listed with no references). But some things are social facts and do we need to cite every single source? Evidentally not if you want to give a positive spin on this holiday. So instead of having a dispute over what was written, I decided the more inclusive manner would be to write the other side of this holiday's story--the contemporary story where the allusions to race are not appreciated, where the ostensible inclusion of all in this holiday is a charade and where the massive immigrant community is conspicuously absent (though tokenized through a presence of a celebrity or two at each year's festivities).

Here is my paragraph below:

Extended content collapsed for brevity. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/
The following content has been placed in a collapsed box for improved usability.
The central problem of this holiday for the more progressive Quebecois community is that this festivity celebrates the "pure laine" (literally translated as "pure wool"), a term used to describe someone born in Quebec and directly descended from European blood. The Saint Jean Baptiste holiday, therefore, focuses on racial purity thereby alienating the growing numbers of non-white, non-French and non-racist Quebecois (of all origins). Moreso this festivity historically effaces the very real historical and contemporary brutality toward's Quebec's indigenous communities who are virtual guests--and badly treated guests--in their own land. As such, the idea of celebrating racial purity would be akin to celebrating a national holiday for say the Ku Klux Klan; yet this holiday is never put into question in the provincial or local governments despite a recent poll which shows that 59% of Quebecers identify themselves as racist [1] and more recently that many Quebecois see immigrants as a threat. [2] Many Quebecois are considering holding anti-Saint Jean celebrations in 2009 in order to honour a society that is inclusive and non-discriminatory since many view honoring one version of history--a version that explicitly negates ethnic diversity and historical conquest--does not construct dialogue nor teach the tuth about the multifarious types of conquest and empire in this province as is noted on various websites and well-established blogs. [3] Moreso, there is an enormous amount of censoreship on this subject as the refusal to accept debate about this holiday often results in paucity of direct journalism on this subject and even intimidation by other Wikipedia users. However, current attitudes are readily available on established discussion boards, blogs and newspapers [4] [5] [6]
The above content has been placed in a collapsed box for improved usability.

Given that this festival is about racial and language identity--both, not just French--it seems incredible to me that this be so conspicuously absent from the wiki. Moreso, it is offensive to me that it is constantly removed as the racial aspects of this holiday are what most everyone objects to. It is not really a French/English problem so much as a "pure laine" problem--and there are many francophones who loathe this expression as much as any other person.

I would appreciate that this paragraph stays in the political section and I would like to have a third party help me out, either to have the language ammended to suit your needs and/or to post it with no more offensive threats from the administrator.

Disfasia (talk) 04:25, 22 June 2009 (UTC) disfasia

If this holiday is widely celebrated, this essay looks like an attempt at giving a lot of weight to a small minority or fringe view. Also, blogs are generally not valid sources, as they are just individual opinions about things. Given all that, I think that the points made, if notable, could be condensed to about 1 or 2 sentences. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:27, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I do not feel that I have either insulted or threatened this user; in fact, I've tried hard to be polite and constructive. I did use the standard warning templates to inform her that she will be blocked if she continues putting her personal analysis into the article, but that is not a threat, but a simple statement of fact. I agree with User:Baseball Bugs that a few neutrally-phrased, verifiable sentences about this controversy would be appropriate, and have said so to User:Disfasia, but she has not yet been willing to try rephrasing what she has written. I've discussed the problems with her at her own talk page, and anyone here can review what I've said and see if they can think of a clearer way to communicate the problem and its possible solutions. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 11:40, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

This holiday has always been under dispute--and no this holiday is not widely celebrated, it is a holiday for the white French. Just in Montreal alone the anglophone community is sizeable in Montreal (one third of the population) and these people do not feel themselves part of this holiday. Then contextualize the large immigrant communitiies that are francophone who also feel excluded and the percentage of people who do not celebrate this holiday is quite high. So, no, this is not a holiday in the sense that everyone celebrates it like Christmas or New Year's regardless of one's religious affiliation (ie. in the spirit of a day off, spending time with those who do celelbrate this holiday, etc0. This is a specifically political holiday that is not only divisive, but that has anglophones feeling discriminated and so you see those who celebrate in full regalia and those who do not stay at home and these numbers are considerable. Between anglophones and immigrants, we are talking over half the population in Montreal alone does not identify with this holiday.

The Quebecois say that 1 July (Canada Day) is the anglophone's holiday. But guess what the government concocted to keep this from actually being a holiday in this province? They created 1 July as the "moving day"--this is the day where leases are up and so everyone who has to move house does so on this day taking the holiday from the anglophones and making it all about something much more stressful than even a general work day. So the argument that this holiday is somehow balanced out by Canada Day loses air quickly--and as an outsider, I saw this immediately--as people here don't want to have "seperate but different" holidays. It seems to me they want to feel that they are included in the holiday at large. The recent scandal over the anglophone music says it all because although this was "resolved" many keep the quotations around resolved when speaking. For the resolution said basically, "as long as they don't sing too long". So the ideal is that anglophones should shut up at a certain moment.

When you look at responses from the public to forcing an Irish pub to take down its vintage posters (http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/montreal/2008/02/quebec_language_police_nab_mon.html) you can understand why many people do not celebrate this holiday. Or the mere fact that there is a language police and that bands have to go through an approval process are other indicators about how the public reacts to an archaic form of language and racial segregation. What is most important here is that many scholars have lost their jobs as a result of writing about such issues and journalists stay away from such a hot debate. Often you will see a very short paragraph about what happened last week with a typical "problem solved" platitude at the end to cut any and all dialogue. But the blogsphere is alive with debate as are many communities as well as organizations such as Affiliation Quebec. http://www.affiliationquebec.ca/en/release-20081212-CommentsontheQuebecElectionbyAllenENutik.html So while the government might take an official approach to non-discrimination, there are in effect many laws and events (such as this holiday) that are deeply discriminatory and divisive that contribute to the general feeling of discrimination. See this Gazette article for further details http://archives.vigile.net/05-12/15.html. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Disfasia (talk • contribs) 11:58, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

OK this is verging on too long, didn't read. But what it all boils down to is that Wikipedia has policies and guidelines about content, including reliable sources, original research and undue weight. If you cannot reach consensus with other editors about your preferred content or wording, then I am afraid there is not much more we can do - we work by consensus. – ukexpat (talk) 14:28, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Then we need to have editors from outside of this country--sorry but I don't find the information I have provided not verifiable--if you go to my talk page you will see even more works on this subject. There is a whole body of contested works on both sides and I find it curious that Wikipedia would only accept one version of this festival when there is so much written on the discrimation faced by both sides, historically for the French, contemporarily for the English, livign in Quebec. So "too long" doesn't really say that much aside from you don't have the energy. That is fine...but I would like an editor who does and can address the serious nature of the sources I have cited rather than dismiss this as "too long". Disfasia (talk) 20:45, 22 June 2009 (UTC) disfasia

I'm sorry, but you're dead wrong. The fault of your long-winded argument not going over lies with nobody but yourself. If you don't care enough about either your argument or about your audience to make a reasonable attempt at forming a concise argument, you're all but saying that your argument doesn't deserve attention. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 01:37, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

??? This made absolutely no sense whatsoever! Again, there are a dozen references that illuminate the fact that this holiday: 1. is simply not celebrated by a large body of people who feel it reinforces racial stereotypes of whiteness and it obfuscates the very real present of a not so harmonious existence in many parts of Quebec, many of the articles listed mention this; 2. avoids the very real problems of racism experienced by immigrants in the province by creating a fiction of well-being and brotherly love that is not shared by many; and 3. creates a fiction of Quebecois identity that has long been abandoned by many and is having little resonance with the young (both French and English) who find nothing interesting or relevant about a day that does not speak to what they see around them (ie. a multicultural Quebec where people have children of all colours, whereby native Quebecois --the indigenous--are conspicuously absent, etc)

The paragraph I am trying to enter includes the necessary references and that people are displaying more bigotry in critiquing that it is an anglophone production, I find curious. Disfasia (talk) 03:24, 23 June 2009 (UTC)disfasia

I've reinstated Mendaliv's comments above. I think Disfasia deleted them by accident. To be as clear and concise as possible, the references you cite are not considered reliable here. Anything built upon blogs and such will be disregarded. If you wish to continue advocating your position, you must bring better reference sources. --AndrewHowse (talk) 03:32, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

In response to Disfasia, who may have misunderstood my comment, my complaint is not about your paragraph. My complaint is about your request for assistance in general. Your initial request spanned six paragraphs and over 4,000 bytes. As I said above, if you can't go through the trouble of presenting your request for assistance in a concise manner, all it says is that you don't want to be taken seriously. I don't mean to be rude about this; I want to see your concerns addressed. It's just that, as written, I can't tell what the hell they are. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 03:55, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Disfasia#Detailed_analysis_of_your_preferred_paragraph If you see the links here and the rather broad bibliography on both sides of the issue, you can see for yourself that this holiday is not at all the widespread holiday celebrated by most everyone. This is a holiday celebrated by those who see themselves as part of this "pure laine" culture and I think the newspaper and book references ought to be suitable for this wiki entry. To recap here are a few more references that deal with the racism in this province either directly related to the fallout from last week's latest language ordeal and other subjects related:

http://www2.canada.com/montrealgazette/columnists/story.html?id=6e2aa4a2-314f-417f-ad2f-96ee16e9eefb http://www.accommodements.qc.ca/index-en.html (here is a Canadian and Quebec-published report which in part deals with the feelings of racism in this province)

DeJean, Paul. Les Haïtiens au Québec. Montréal: Presses de l'Université du Québec, 1978.

As for the length of my description. First, my posting was deleted from the site instead of put under a "in conflict/discussion" section. I don't think administrators should have such power of censoreship and then the threats to ban me for putting up a paragraph which should have been resolved by discussion, not alienating and negative comments, insults even. (You can read for yourself this). I came here to get some help and once again...then on the original site, the administrator actually tried to guess my name by writing what he/she thought to be personal information about me, but instead it was about a colleague. I don't find this professional in the least. So now, I am just trying to get through the censoreship because it is pretty clear to me that this "holiday" is completely misunderstood by almost everyone outside of this place. And there is a large consensus to back up every single thing I have written from the language police, to rather archaic language laws, to the recent spat over bands singing in English (mind you, I was told today that in the past bands have been allowed that sing in Spanish or in Creole, just not English). And the horrid reality that the "pure French blood" aspect of this holiday not only smacks of racism, it is racism to immigrants here, not to mention many non-immigrants. Take a look at the articles I mention from newspapers, books and such... But I would like someone to take this seriously because today when I spoke to people of what has happened here---French and English alike--they could not believe that it is so difficult to have the entireity of this holiday's story told.

I went ahead and posted a corrected version of the paragraph with current debate on this topic, all fully cited (no blogs) to include journal articles and a television emission.

Disfasia, I think part of the problem you're facing is trying to discuss the issues of nationalism, racism and separatism that exist in Quebec on an encyclopedic entry about a National Holiday. I think you'd do better to mention the nationalist nature and redirect to further discussion under Pure_laine or Quebec Nationalism, etc. There is no doubt that St-Jean is a nationalist holiday, but issues of racism and separatism are not significant to the holiday itself, even though the holiday is a focal point for racist and separatist dogma. Do you see what I mean? I've lived in Quebec my whole life, and I believe that 80% or more of the celebrants are more concerned with partying and showing pride in their own French culture than the ugly racism that gets dredged up. pale (talk) 00:06, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I totally agree with what you say about the partying--I call Saint Jean "the hockey game without hockey"! :) But this is 80% or so of those who participate. Still there are many of us--of all ethnicities and backgrounds--who are excluded from this festival despite the festival leaders trying to make it into a "Quebec is for all". It is hard to feel "welcome" to a celebration of white, French heritage (and I not talking about French language here, I mean "white French" as ethnicity) whilst this very same holiday refuses to celebrate contemporary Quebecois identity that is all inclusive. In the USA, for example, the 4th of July holdiays today celebrate immigrant identities coming together (because everyone there short of the indigenous are immigrant)--issues of slavery and Japanese and German internment camps are acknowledged, women's and Civil rights also discussed, and the betterment of our society and the current ills (ie. Bush, torture, fiscal irresponsibility, international thugishness,etc) are also discussed. As such, the collective idea of national heritage has drastically shifted these past twenty, thirty years. Wether or not you like drunken masses or the barbecues ad nauseum, this holiday is really about an acknowledgment of a betterment of this national identity by much of the media with all the superficiality and kitsch at times. I don't see this at all here, drunkenness and blue/white flags apart. In all fairness this holday is very much attached, directly attached, to these issues of separation even if drunkeness and naked torsos with flags painted on seem to carry this 'party' message. I know many Montreal- Maghrebians, Jews, Haitians, Egyptians, Ivoiriens, and I don't know a one who celebrates this holiday (and in Montreal, just visible minorities alone are 26% of the population, add into this all the other immigrant groups adn we are talking about a huge chunk of the city that does not celebrate at all this holiday). The lack of participation by a huge chunk of the population is a problem. Why cannot this be mentioned in the political section of the holiday? As you can see I added the events of last Saint Jean with Stéphane Gendron's comments about the racism and the notion that this holiday is purely "kétaine", contributing sources that weigh this issue on both sides.

[edit] Simranjit_Singh_Mann

This page about a controversial Indian Sikh politician has degenerated into an edit war. There are several versions of the article, several of which are largely editorial. A relatively even-handed version was instituted for a couple weeks before the current muckabout. We could use an enforced middle ground.

Thanks,

ETA Link: Simranjit Singh Mann --Misaligned (talk) 18:36, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

• Page protected; both parties warned about 3RR violations and edit-warring [13] [14]. Fleetflame 19:56, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Wiki entry - rewritten for Wold News Network

Hello

The page which I had created for "World News Network" was deleted. please ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_News_Network

I agree, some of the content was copied from "world news network" website.

As suggested by SOMEGUY1221, i have re-created the page : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Smita28/World_News_Network

Please may I know your opinion on this page? This time I don't want it to be deleted.

smita (talk) 12:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't see anything there that makes this a notable subject for an article. I suggest that you read WP:First_article, familiarise yourself with it. And you still have material copied from the subject web site. This is WP:plagiarism and is a big no-no. Jezhotwells (talk) 15:00, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Please also read WP:CORP. – ukexpat (talk) 20:06, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] someone look at "Flux Pumping" as and advert or just needing citations in textt.

I put an advert tag on this,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_pumping

because essentially all of the sources point to a fluxpumping website, fluxpump.co.uk , or are general background sources on superconductivity. The article text is largely just blue links to other wiki sources. An IP reverted my tag but left intact a link to Scirus search results on the term- which an interested reader can examine. The term is a bit hard to isolate as it does come up in superconductivity but also in plasma physics. The article is probably fixable, and maybe the flux pumping website contains reprints of journal articles but it could just use better documentation with citations through out the text, not just a few bibliographical entries at the end. Anyone want to look at this without having any topic-specific knowledge and see what your impression is?

Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 10:48, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

The IP in question is a cambridge ( UK?) address which would put it oddly near the "co.uk" site cited above, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:131.111.213.41 this doesn't prove anything and I don't want to make allegations but did want to get someone to look at the article. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 11:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Other issues Human rights in the U.S. - regional - New Orleans, Louisiana and Los Angeles, California

I contributed the section on human rights in Los Angeles, which I attached in the last section: other issues. In that section is also a single paragraph, which I find cryptic, on Hurricane Katrina. Going back, I realized that this is what was left as the result of objections to the subject.

Between the attempts to eliminate coverage of recent events in New Orleans and Los Angeles, the article is deliberately skipping over the major events in the area that the title to the article claims to cover.

Here is are two segments I wrote in Discussion: Media:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_United_States#Other_issues_Human_rights_in_the_U.S._-_regional_-_New_Orleans.2C_Louisiana_and_Los_Angeles.2C_California

DISCUSSION SEGMENT 1) SECTION 10: 1. U.S. Government Response to Hurricane Katrina, 2. Human Rights Crisis Evolving in Los Angeles County, California.

10.1. U.S. Government Response to Hurricane Katrina' Between the two subjects described below, it appears that an article that is expected by the reader to provide truthful reflection of the state of Human Rights in the U.S. today, is entirely failing to provide the basic information on the main human rights events of recent years. I initially chose to put the Los Angeles issue adjacent to the Katrina issue, based on my limited understanding of the matter of Katrina from discussions with people who volunteered to assist in the crisis after the disaster. Following the repeated deletions of my segment on Los Angeles, I went back and read a bit about the history of the editing of the Katrina story. There is no doubt in my mind that the segment on Katrina, in its current form, is rather non-specific, and appears to direct the readers to sources from outside the U.S. to hear the truth on the matter. One could expect better than that from Wikipedia. Even if there is a space limitation, there is no need to be circumspect. The major facts on the matter need to be stated, and if unclear, try to sort what part was established as truthful, and what part remains unclear. 10.1.1 Mistreatment of Prisoners However, if events referred to as "mistreatment of the prison population during the flooding." were indeed documented by the American Civil Liberties Union and the National Prison Project, then the main facts should be clearly stated. And if the main facts are anywhere close to what I was informed of, then clearly this was one of the major human rights event in the U.S. in recent decades. Delegating it to a elliptic single paragraph at the end of this long article is out of proportion with the significance of the matter of Katrina relative to title of this article - Human Rights in the U.S. Although the title does not explicitly states so, one expects that the article be current and reflect the state of affairs in the U.S. today: Open Questions: a. Were prisoners allowed to drown slowly in their cells when water levels were rising? b. What was the exact days of the event? c. What are the sources to verify it? d. What do we know about the number of prisoners who perished as a result? e. Did it happen only in one prison or more than one? f. What level in prison administration was responsible for the abuse? 10.1.2 U.S. Government Response ti Hurricane Katrina a. What was the U.S. government response to the issue of prisoner mistreatment, if any? b. What were the main reasons that U.S. government response to Katrina, beyond the prisoner's issue, were seen as as human rights issue? I believe that an encyclopedia has no room for circumspections. It's either you tell it as it is, or delete it altogether.

2. Human Rights Crisis Evolving in Los Angeles County, California Following prudent advice from editors, I started working on a full article titled: Human Rights in Los Angeles County, California 1985-2009. Most of the text and the references are already posted under my talk (Jz12345678), although it will take me a bit longer to bring it to standard Wikipedia format. What was inserted here, under Human rights in the United States is only an abstract with key references. The subject as a whole seemed to generate resistance in the past. I solicited and continue to solicit editorial comments, in order to bring the text of both the abstract and the article to a final form, Careful review of the subject matter and the references would leave no reasonable person with a doubt that this minor edition to the article on Human Right in the United States, is in fact documenting some of the most dramatic human rights issues taking place in the U.S. today, both as related to scope of the violations, and also related to the nature of the consitutional violations underlying the matter. I would be grateful for any editorial comment on both the subject matter and the format. Jz12345678 (talk)Jz12345678

Hi Soxwon: This is the second time that you delete a whole segment without making any comment whatsoever on the matter at hand. When a contributor provides text, it is assumed that he/she made a good faith effort, and the evidence is in the text itself. It should be likewise expected from anybody who deletes text to demonstrate at least a minimal intellectual investment in the subject at hand and justify the deletion based on the text that he/she seeks to delete, and the perspective of the matter at hand. Deletion absent any explanatory comment is indistinguishable from censorship, albeit good faith is taken for granted. Looking forward to comments on the matter... Any such comment would be gratefully appreciated... Otherwise, I am not sure of the procedures, but I request that the issue be declared a dispute, and that it be evaluated in a more formal way. Jz12345678 (talk) 07:52, 24 June 2009 (UTC)Jz12345678 Jz12345678 (talk) 08:36, 24 June 2009 (UTC)Jz12345678

DISCUSSION SEGMENT 2

Ongoing Katrina discussion

Please seeTalk:Human_rights_in_the_United_States#Katrina for full discussion. The Article in its current form fails to reflect the key facts regarding human rights in the U.S. in the past decade or two. Reading the article as it stands today, and following elaborate discussion on exclusion/inclusion of human rights affairs outside the U.S., it appears that some of the main human rights affairs of recent years INSIDE THE CONTINENTAL U.S. have been excluded from this elaborate write up as well. At present, the write-up gives very heavy weight to historical and abstract discussion, but avoids explicit description of the key facts in the matter at hand, on the ground. If one imagine a high school or college student reading this article for an introduction to the subject, one would have to conclude that he/she would not be well informed regarding the state of human rights in the U.S. today, or in recent years, and would not be able to form an informed opinion on the matter either. The opening statement is indicative of that: "Human rights in the United States are legally protected by the Constitution of the United States and amendments,[2][3] conferred by treaty, and enacted legislatively through Congress, state legislatures, and plebiscites (state referenda). Federal courts in the United States have jurisdiction over international human rights laws as a federal question, arising under international law, which is part of the law of the United States. [4][page needed]" It lacks any reference, factual or comparative, which would provide the reader any clue regarding the state of human rights in the U.S. today, on its own, and compared to other nations that we may choose to compare ourselves to. I myself got recently interested in Wikipedia, when I realized that on some critical economic/legal issues related to the current financial crisis, it provided straight forward facts and assessment regarding the role of various corporations in the evolving disaster. The readers expect no lesser candor from Wikipedia on the issue of human rights. Jz12345678 (talk) 09:39, 24 June 2009 (UTC) Jz12345678 --Jz12345678 (talk) 12:10, 24 June 2009 (UTC)Jz12345678

With respect, Wikipedia is not the proper forum for your purposes. As stated at WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not a soapbox, "You might wish to start a blog or visit a forum if you want to convince people of the merits of your favorite views." — Satori Son 13:41, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I just scanned the above. But, from your talk page, I gather that the article you have written has been deleted via this deletion discussion. The short answer would be to address the concerns raised in that discussion, as much as possible, and then ask for a deletion review before reposting the article. If you cannot address those concerns, then perhaps wikipedia is not the place for that material. Athanasius • Quicumque vult 22:43, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Redirection

I was searching for "Video Surveillance" and I got redirected to the "Closed-Circuit Television" (CCTV) page which I was very surprised since there's a difference between both and therefore each deserve a separate article. Is there a way I can write an article soley dedicated to video surveillance and delete the redirection to CCTV? --RPT01 (talk) 18:35, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Sure - just edit the Video surveillance redirect page to delete the redirect code and substitute your text. Make sure that you have reliable sources to support the notability of your new article. Probably a good idea to read WP:YFA first. – ukexpat (talk) 18:41, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Absolutely! Though if you do plan on this, I'd strongly advise you to go about it in the following way:

• Discuss splitting content from the CCTV article to a new one on video surveillance at Talk:Closed-circuit television
• Write a draft article in your userspace rather than in the main article space (for example, at User:RPT01/Video surveillance)
• Have a good argument ready as to not only how CCTV and video surveillance are separate concepts, but why they should have separate articles; it would seem to me that most if not all video surveillance is done via CCTV, so it makes sense to discuss it exclusively in the CCTV article

And to specifically overwrite the redirect, you need to edit the redirect itself. You'll notice when you type Video surveillance in the search bar, you get some text that says "redirected from video surveillance". Click that, and you'll be brought to the redirect. You can edit it from there. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 18:42, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

And please be more cautious in the future before moving an article of this age and length to a completely new title, as you did before. --Orange Mike | Talk 19:33, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Dispute About "Elevator Pitch" Entry

Elevator pitch (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Another person and I are in a dispute about the "Elevator Pitch" entry. I am a recognized expert in the subject (at Washington University in St. Louis and Notre Dame, among other places) and have been maintaining the elevator pitch page for over a year. Over a year ago I included a link to an article on one of my sites that goes into greater detail about the elevator pitch. The article contains detail that is important and relevant, and missing from the other linked-to external articles, but that really doesn't belong in the article itself. Here's the page in question...

http://www.elevatorpitchessentials.com/essays/ElevatorPitch.html

The issue is that I originally wrote that as a stand-alone, purely informational piece but have since published a book about the subject of the elevator pitch. The other person (who hasn't contributed anything to the page other than deleting my link) thinks my linking to my original article about the elevator pitch is spam since I now also sell a book about the subject elsewhere on that site. They also think I'm lying about my qualifications, but that's a separate issue.

It's also kind of absurd that experts not be allowed to weigh on on the subjects that they are experts in.

I know I could be seen as having a conflict of interest, but I also know that the linked-to article contains additional relevant information (which is why I wrote it in the first place). Can someone please make a call on this. Thanks. Thepainguy (talk) 20:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Hrm. I don't find that link to be particularly bad in terms of the external links guidelines. But I'll say this; it'd go over a lot better if you were to instead contribute to the Wikipedia article and reference that essay. WP:SPS, our policy on the use of self-published sources (which this is), states that it's OK to reference self-published material by established experts. Just a thought anyway. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 20:50, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Mend, this just came up regarding an author with a fringe-theory on evolution so I had to check here. The author did have some controversial but notable publications however the ones relevant to the entry at issue amounted to self-published works of little obvious value. There is no reason, to create a new class of author and indeed the exceptions that do exist are quite limited BUT REQUIRE A WIKIPEDIAN TO MAKE A MERIT JUDGEMENT ABOUT 'ON TOPIC' unless there is 3rd party source anyway, " Self-published material may, in some circumstances, be acceptable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications. However, caution should be exercised when using such sources: if the information in question is really worth reporting, someone else is likely to have done so." That is, the wikipedian then must decide if a "doctor" is an expert on brain surgery as opposed to health foods. This ultimately would be decided by nebulous subjective criteria, like "does this make sense to me?" In practice, I don't see any place to apply this exception for self-published work without the coroborating 3rd party source. This exception gives a an author a soapbox for fringe theories based on track record that may or may not be related. There are AFAIK no exceptions in peer review for established experts although maybe reviewers could be intimidated or more glib about critiquing established authors. While the past is not a reliable indicator of the future, as the SEC wants us to remember, popular appeal even among peers is not a reliable indicator of merit but it is probably better for the wiki objectives.

Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 12:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

If you're willing to follow our best practice guidelines then you needn't worry about conflict of interest, and you'd be most welcome to contribute here. SHEFFIELDSTEEL^TALK 21:29, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

WP:COI is not meant to discourage participation by experts. Jehochman ^Talk 12:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

No of course not, but on the other hand, a COI must be properly disclosed. – ukexpat (talk) 15:46, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Note: OP blocked 72 hrs for spam linking. Athanasius • Quicumque vult 22:45, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] =Asistence

Cham Albanians (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

We have a major dispute on Cham Albanians article and as it seems, we need somebody to overview the dispute. Can somebody please help?Balkanian`s word (talk) 10:09, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

There is indeed a major problem with the present Chams article as it is full of falsifications and misquoting of its sources. Until yesterday I had no idea about but in a day (until now) I found 14 such cases in that article, indicating a consistent effort possibly from more than one editors. I really don't know how to manage the situation because I believe that there are many more such cases. I started to report the cases one by one to the discussion page and to edit the article but the falsifications are too many to do it by myself before an edit war will start again to stop any real work. Can someone please take a look to the discussion and the already mentioning cases (I will give at least eight more) to make your checking and to tell me how to manage the situation. Can we freeze the article so to examine one by one every source on it? It is impossible to do it by myself when every day new references and edits are adding (by the same person), together with the hot debate in the discussion page. Thanks, --Factuarius (talk) 10:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Well it should probably be delisted from GA status. Perhaps take to WP:GAR? Jezhotwells (talk) 22:19, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Why was my article rejected?

My article on 'Days of the Week according to Hindu calendar' was rejected saying 'blank suggestions'. What does the term mean? Bless10 (talk) 15:56, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

This was answered at the Help desk yesterday. See Wikipedia:Help desk#Rejected article - 'blank_suggestions'. --AndrewHowse (talk) 16:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

But did we bother to tell them it was answered? No! Fleetflame 16:08, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] editing loop about Madeleine Pickens age

Hi, I'm getting into an editing loop about Madeline PIckens' age with another user who keeps reverting her age to the false younger age. I would appreciate any help resolving this, thanks. Also, I had to make the age section in the article really inelegant in an attempt to substantiate this and prevent (unsuccessfully) reversions.

For some reason (let's guess what that is :-) her age in numerous web pages is about ten years younger, 52, (bogus birthdate March 5, 1957) than her actual age, 62.

The New York Times had an article at http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/sports/othersports/03horses.html which listed her age as 62. I emailed the Times and asked if that was correct, due to the ten years difference from other sites, and I received this email back on May 1, 2009 from Mike Abrams (<e-mail address redacted>):

Thank you for your note about our article on Madeleine Pickens. We appreciate your concern and your readership.

Ms. Pickens is indeed 62, as we reported. Not only did we get the birthdate from her, but we confirmed it via public records research and previous articles.

Thanks again for writing.

Mike Abrams NYT Sports

Trudyjh (talk) 19:19, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I understand the frustration. This is one of those verifiability versus truth situations. At Wikipedia we are concerned with what can be verified which is not always the same as the truth. The best way to resolve this is to go directly to the source -- are those public records available online in a form that can be cited or, if not, can those previous NYT articles be cited? Without that level of sourcing, you are faced with more sources supporting the incorrect details than those supporting the correct details, and that's a problem. – ukexpat (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

The NYT source is certainly a good reference - it does in fact say '62' in there. I might suggest that you do something similar to what has happened at Collin Raye, where there's been some debate about age - list them both, with a source for each, and a note that there is some confusion on the matter. That would save a few problems. Having said that, Trudyjh's last edit to Madeleine A. Pickens is entirely out of our style. I'm going to remove it and leave some comments on the talk page - it just can't stand the way it is right now. Tony Fox (arf!) 20:06, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I followed your suggestion to put both in, but then I found her own website which says "I'm 62" Pickens tells Fox News. So I changed it to just 62. Trudyjh (talk) 23:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I take exception to User:Trudyjh's comment that I "keeps reverting her age to the false younger age". Insulting words aren't part of Wikipedia:Etiquette. Also, I note that User:Trudyjh only advised me of this Request well after the fact. In actual fact, the 1947 birth date I inserted under proper reference, comes from the National Thoroughbred Racing Association (NTRA) and, as anyone who knows racing, and for myself as a former Thoroughbred owner, the NTRA information is published based on a written document signed by the horse owner. As such, the only birth date acceptable as a Wikipedia reference, is the 1947 one from the NTRA which was what I patiently explained to the discourteous User:Trudyjh. As User:Trudyjh admitted here, the New York Times did not not get her birth date from Madeleine Pickens. And, the only U.S. record of her birth is a sealed immigration file. Hence the NYT date of 1957 was in fact unacceptable usage at Wikipedia (policy) when a documented reference of her birthdate is given by the very reputable NTRA who publishes it from a mandatory signed document. However, her NTRA form was at a time when she was Madeleine Paulson, and knowing Allen Paulson's enormous ego, shaving ten years off her birth date would be no problem as her birth records are not in the United States. Handicapper (talk) 13:26, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Er, the quote from the NYT fellow she corresponded with says "Not only did we get the birthdate from her, but we confirmed it via public records research" - and her own statement on her website would seem to seal the deal. I think this is pretty much sorted now. Tony Fox (arf!) 15:56, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Lord Selkirk Elementry School

Lord Selkirk Elementary School (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

To Whom it may concern: I recently update the Lord Selkirk Elementry School page with content from the schools plan (public document) When I checked today for the updates they where not there and there is no record of them being submitted. There is however, a banner asking that this page be merged with a community page (which I disagree with) I woudl liek to have the updates to the schools paged implemented becauser the school is going to celebrated it's Centenary and Wikipedia woudl be a natual place for folks to research the school. Please advise how I can make the updates stick Thank-you Colin Redfern —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.173.54.11 (talk • contribs) 01:42, 26 June 2009

What is the name of the article you're talking about? --Orange Mike | Talk 01:06, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

If you disagree with the merge proposal then join the discussion on the article talk page. If you want to know how to edit a page then please read Wikipedia:How to edit a page. Don't forget to sign posts with four (~) tildes . Jezhotwells (talk) 08:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I have opened a merge discussion on the article's talk page. Seems to me that all the related elementary school articles should be merged, so maybe there should be a centralised discussion. – ukexpat (talk) 13:46, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Charles_Joseph_Fletcher

Charles_Joseph_Fletcher (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

I have a picture of Charles Joseph Fletcher, it was taken June 25th, at an inventor meeting. I want to upload but have no access. How do i get it to you guys?

Mitch Gutu SEO Space NJ www.akaceospace.com http://www.facebook.com/mitch.gutu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Joseph_Fletcher —Preceding unsigned comment added by CEOspaceNJ (talk • contribs) 05:29, 26 June 2009

Wikipedia:Uploading_images should provide all the information that you need. If yours is a very new account then you may not be able to upload. in which case you can submit a request at Wikipedia:Images_for_upload. And don't forget to sign your posts with four tildes (~) Jezhotwells (talk) 08:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

If the image in question is one that you have taken, please consider uploading it to Commons so that it is available for use on all Wikimedia projects. Commons does not have an autoconfirmation requirement. Head over to WP:SUL first to set up single user login across all Wikimedia projects. – ukexpat (talk) 13:51, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] continuous unjust undo of edits!

I have been trying to resolve this issue for quite some time now. On the "turntablism" page I made an edit and it was undone because of soliciting. I was NOT at all soliciting any product or service.

I am DJ Supreme from NY and I actually created thw word turntablism in 1993/4. This can be verified by pioneer DJs including Kool Herc, Bambaataa, Jazzy Jay, Red Alert, etc who have heard me say it in the past. This info was accurate for a while, then it was changed to say that DJ Babu from the West Coast originated the word. Since then, every time I have tried to change it back, it gets undone. This is getting on my nerves now. Please communicate with me as to how to solve this problem.

Binkster was the last t undo my changes.

I would like to speak directly with an editor about this, because it seems that the editors are not thoroughly checking, especially when they now say that the reasaon is for solicitation. I believe maybe somebody else is playing with something. This is very relevant, and it is important to be certain that history is CORRECT.

Thank You —Preceding unsigned comment added by Realdjsupreme (talk • contribs)

Left a note on the editor's talk page regarding sources and the need thereof. Tony Fox (arf!) 17:36, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Lauren Willig

• Lauren Willig (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

I have added information about author Lauren Willig, her current career status, the name of her current best selling novel and the title of her upcoming work. I have cited all of this information to an interview conducted with the author. The website, Loaded Questions, is one that I contribute to and the interview with Lauren Willig one that I myself conducted. However, I have tried to argue that, despite my involvement, this information is important to improving the accuracy of the Lauren Willig page. None of the information is controversial. I have read the guidelines about adding information to pages and have listed my argument on the discussion page for Lauren Willig. I am newer to Wikipedia but feel like I have a good deal of information to share on author after a lengthy career in the book business and now after two years of interviewing more than 60 authors for Loaded Questions. However, another editor MrOllie has deleted every contribution I have made to the site and despite continual contact with him to try and ensure that I follow guidelines and understand why it is that this information is being removed he has essentially refused to discuss his concerns with me.

Here is a link to the page in question Lauren_Willig and to the discussion page where I have attempted to discuss the issue: Talk:Lauren_Willig

This issue has been repeated with a number of authors, many of whom have little or no information written about them. I understand that possible conflict of interest I have in being associated with the site I have cited and in conducting the interviews but sincerely believe that this information is pertinent. As it stands MrOllie has essentially said that he will remove any future information shared from Loaded Questions in general.

I want to contribute to this community and share the information and expertise that I have gained in both my professional career and over the last two plus years conducting author interviews that have been printed as part of St. Martin's Griff Reading Group Gold and in a number of other places. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KellyHewitt80 (talk • contribs)

MrOllie is correct. Yours is a self-published source, a blog; not a reliable source. Your obvious conflict of interest in posting links to "Loaded Questions featuring Kelly Hewitt" is quite beyond the pale. --Orange Mike | Talk 17:26, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Editing dispute on Taiwan Major League (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

There appears to be an edit war on this article over the correct semantics/location of this particular professional baseball league. Could someone come and work it out? It's been reverted several more times than the three-revert rule. -Falcon8765 (talk) 02:30, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Both parties blocked ([15], [16]); that should settle things down. You haven't tried the article talk page to resolve differences; I would suggest that. Further questions? let me know! Fleetflame 02:55, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] help with Asmahan dispute!

I need help with a dispute: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Asmahan#Dispute.2C_3O_given

This is very important, We need an admin that is directly and actively involved and takes a close look at every single one of the 7 different points I have made. And also changes the article in to what he decides.

We have been argueing over this for almost two months. Admin has to take action now.

--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 08:51, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

You already have a third opinion discussion open and an admin involved in the dispute so I am not quite sure what you intended to achieve by posting here. It is not the function of admins to make binding rulings on content disputes, and in any case, this is not the right forum to find administrators (that would be WP:ANB). But for what its worth, my understanding of the facts are, briefly, 1. born Syria, 2. naturalised Egyptian. Surely to goodness the two of you can find a way of stating these simple facts in the article without getting into an edit war over whether she is Syrian or Eqyptian. Phrases such as Syrian-born can be used, there is no need for Wikipedia to decide which nationality she should be described as unless there is a source that affirms she self-describes a particular way. SpinningSpark 10:50, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually she was born on a boat heading to the French mandate of Syria. We need an administrator that is actively involved and helps us. We can not do it ourselves. No admin is doing that right now and the third opinion is closed. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 11:28, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

You do not need an administrator and you are not listening so I will say it again, administrators do not make rulings in content disputes. I can give you an opinion, the same as any other editor, but I am not permitted to use my admin powers to enforce my opinion. You need an admin for things like locking a page to stop disruption or blocking editors who are edit warring, but not for deciding what articles should say. I seem to be missing where the 3O was closed. If it is closed, the 3O should have given you an opinion, if that is so why are you both not following it? It is pointless asking for the opinions of others if you cannot agree to actually use it. If the 3O is not closed then either you can expect an opinion to be forhtcoming, or if the original editor has gone away, go find another one. The fact that Asmahan was born on a boat does not change my opinion of how you should proceed, state the facts, including that one, and leave the reader to make up their own mind on everything else. SpinningSpark 12:14, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] dispute creation attribution

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gene_Youngblood&action=history

I am the creator of the article about Gene Youngblood, however, the history attributes creation to a user named Shewhowatches, who seems no longer to have a Wikipedia account. Is there a way to correct the attribution?

The article was my first Wikipedia contribution and is based on an e-mail that Mr. Youngblood sent to me on February 1, 2007. I contributed the article to fill a gap in Wikipedia's account of the history of media arts. I fully expected others to add their knowledge to the article, but I did not expect someone else to take credit for originating the article. At the time, I did not know enough about the conditions of Wikipedia to have signed the article when I created it, and I did not have a Wikipedia account then, so it was created without logging in.

Thank you for your response to my question.Jcraford (talk) 13:40, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

As far as I know, the only way you could do this would be to usurp the account. WP:USURP states, "The account you want to usurp should have no edits or significant log entries on any Wikimedia Project to qualify for usurpation..." and "Please do not request usurpation if your user account is less than several months old, or barely used. In order to ensure that usurped usernames be put to good use, we prefer only to grant requests from reasonably well-established users." Unfortunately, the account you wish to take over has created two articles, and although your account was created over a year ago, you have made only 120 edits. Further questions? let me know! Fleetflame 15:57, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

It is not possible that you created the article while not logged in, as IP's (people not logged in) cannot create new articles. Did you ask someone else to create the article, perhaps through articles for creation? Athanasius • Quicumque vult 22:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Meet the Deedles Falsities

Meet the Deedles (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

For the Meet the Deedles article, user User:NitroMan3941 has made it his own, including unsourced and (based on my recollection of the film from years ago) patently false material. The warning flags arise when the editor claims that this 1998, PG-rated Disney movie includes drug-abuse, serial killer Ted Bundy, homosexuality and more.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. Based on Disney's track record, however, it seems highly unlikely, and there are no sources. I'd be more than happy to have this irrelevant movie's article reverted to a stub. Editor User:NitroMan3941 claims he has reviews of the movie which mention the suspect details, but I could find no information supporting that on Google, except for sources derived from this article. He seems happy to get pugnacious, so I'd like to receive some editor assistance. Dabizi (talk) 17:09, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow, this situation is a little messy. NitroMan3941 doesn't seem to be the most civil user (I've warned him about this), either. First, I would suggest using the article talk page and his talk page to try to establish communication - not just warn him or call his edits vandalism, but talk to him. He's put in a lot of work ([17]) on the article, and probably took offense to someone coming out of the blue and calling him a vandal. If he doesn't respond, there are other ways to deal with the situation. Further questions? let me know! Fleetflame 20:19, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] factual updates to your pages constantly removed

Harkness Roses (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Robert Powell (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Les Reed (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Factual important updates to certain pages on your site keep being removed by someone. Granted if originally they were too lengthy, that I can understand, but please make allowances as it is my first attempt trying and I do have a disability and no acumen for complex sites. I then added just a project website link as references and again, some of that has been removed, in one instance the term Supervising Director of Animations relating to a project, details of which you do not have. Another relevant page you asked for more information then promptly removed it. All are verifiable as I am an Executive Producer and Management Company of said project and celebrities are on board, do I give up trying to update your site as I do not know what is going on. Is someone at wikipedia removing the detail and if so, may I ask for what reason, otherwise may I ask if someone is choosing to follow the links and remove detail as a form of vandalism to our project ?

Many thanks for your help in explaining things to me. Most obliged.

My reference to your records is under the chosen title of Admiral Lord Nelson —Preceding unsigned comment added by AdmiralLordNelson (talk • contribs) 17:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Right you have been external link spamming the above articles. Possibly you have a conflict of interest. In any case your edits have been reverted and you have been warned about this. If you do not desist you will be blocked. Please read up on our policies. the link is on your talk page. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:13, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I have requested speedy deletion of Harkness Roses as the whole article is balatant advertising. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:19, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

That speedy has been declined. Fleetflame 20:28, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I didn't see the discussion for that entry but I guess if the entry is closer to a case study than something of appeal to customers it could make it but as-is it looks like a stub without much notability headed towards an ad.

[[My reply and final comment is that YOU invited factual updates on some of your pages and then you accuse me of spamming when I am the project Management Company and Executive Producer ! You need not block me as I will not be attempting to post anything else on your website pages, and this was my first attempt. I do not Spam and resent the fact you accuse me of spamming when all I have done is post a legitimate update on 'related' pages the people who feature on those pages are my project Team Members. Shame on you Wikipedia. I will not reply to anything else you may post about me, but remind you of your responsibilities not to blatantly discredit a legitimate posting nor be slanderous in your remarks, which would be inaccurate about myself, my project, and celebrity team, and any such remarks would be truly unprofessional on your part]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by AdmiralLordNelson (talk • contribs) 01:10, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 21:50, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Resolved - disputed attribution for creation of article

Please disregard my previous request for editor assistance regarding the attribution for the Creation of the Wikipedia entry for Gene Youngblood. Very much to my embarrassment, I realized out of the blue today that the disputed account, Shewhowatches, is my own! I had forgotten I had written behind the cloak of an anonymous account name. She Who Watches is the name of a Chinook petroglyph/pictograph along the Columbia River near my hometown. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsagaglalal http://www.ochcom.org/chinook/ At the time, it seemed fitting to write about Gene under this name. Please excuse my forgetfulness.Jcraford (talk) 02:28, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

No problem! Glad you remembered, and thanks for clearing things up! Fleetflame 02:45, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome! Thanks for the "Wikilove" :~) Jcraford (talk) 02:55, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] political john russell article keeps getting deleted

John Russell (Florida politician) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

user "Drmies" has been reverting work-in-progress on a florida federal candidate and activist as part of work i am performing on making fl political figures' pages more accessible. not sure why she has been attacking well-sourced work about notable figures like this without asking for clarification or using formal means of objection. please help wikipedia

Baxterword (talk) 06:57, 28 June 2009 (UTC)baxter word

Drmies requested that the user reads WP:NOTDIR. Section 7 says "an article is a summary of accepted knowledge regarding its subject". Baxterword has been adding trivia to the article that is not needed.--The Legendary Sky Attacker 08:19, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

And Drmies is NOT a troll.--The Legendary Sky Attacker 08:26, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Please take this to the article talk page. Your first step in any disagreement should always be to calmly discuss the issues on article talk with the other editors. Usually, that will be the only step needed. What you do not need to do right now is get other editors involved or continue with an edit war on the article page. I have also removed the accusation of troll from the section heading, that is unnecessarily inflamatory and you should assume good faith at all times. SpinningSpark 12:54, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

It is much easier to remove content, then to create or improve it. I suspect that content removal can sometimes become the tool of the lazy biased or inexperienced editor. The user in question appears to be more intent on suppressing information then in building valuable and well referenced encyclopedic content. While Spining Shark is technically right in writing that the first step in dispute resolution should be to attempt to calmly discuss the issues on the article talk page, encouraging discussion can sometimes be difficult when one editor is focused on creating content and another seems intent on removing or constantly reverting content. You probably should try it though, and you probably also did the right thing to ask for editorial assistance - at least other editors are more likely to be aware of the issue now. After trying these things you might just have to wait it out with some patience until the user concerned gets bored and goes away. Please post an update if the issue continues to be a problem. Frei Hans (talk) 10:01, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Corbin Chamberlin

Corbin Chamberlin needs a wiki, How dose one go about making one? best, D.V —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.2.41.108 (talk) 19:14, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

If you would like to have a page created on this wiki, which is called Wikipedia, then you should log a request at WP:RA. If you would like to host a wiki, then please consult m:MediaWiki to learn about the underlying software. --AndrewHowse (talk) 19:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Standard creation template message follows:

You will need to first register an account, which has many benefits, including the ability to create articles. Once you have registered, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Please also review a few of our relevant policies and guidelines which all articles should comport with. As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, articles must not contain original research, must be written from a neutral point of view, should cite to reliable sources which verify their content and must not contain unsourced, negative content about living people.

Articles must also demonstrate the notability of the subject. Please see our subject specific guidelines for people, bands and musicians, companies and organizations and web content and note that if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends against you creating the article.

If you still think an article is appropriate, see Help:Starting a new page. You might also look at Wikipedia:Your first article and Wikipedia:How to write a great article for guidance, and please consider taking a tour through the Wikipedia:Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation.

If Corbin is not notable per Wikipedia guidelines, there are alternatives such as Wikipopuli and Wikibios.  – ukexpat (talk) 15:13, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] ACN Inc edit war

ACN Inc. (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) All sorts of issues between myself and another editor on this article. The other editor appears to be new to Wikipedia and is, in my opinion, not following guidelines for RS, NPOV, and BALANCE. He's reverting any changes I make, and making false accusations I'm a paid editor. Assistance in resolving the dispute would be appreciated. --Insider201283 (talk) 19:23, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I'll admit I looked, but I'd more readily admit to studying the Brazil wax controversy... So, this company is another MLM with various legal problems. Unless you want to make a list of "MLM companies with legal problems" I'm not even sure I understand why this company is notable. It is quite likely there are passionate defenders as well as people who have lost money. But, what makes it notable?

Is this a new list?

Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 19:42, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

See my discussion notice on WP:COIN about Insider201283, a self-described "paid editor" whose specialty in Wikipedia is defending MLM companies and who runs websites in defence of MLM companies. --Orange Mike | Talk 19:54, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Wes Anderson article cleanup

I'm new to editing Wikipedia, and I would like some help on the Wes Anderson (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) article. I have tagged the article with the BLP Sources tag, and a lot of the article has ^{[citation needed]} and ^{[original research?]} tags. I would like some help gathering additional sources and suggestions for an improved format of the article. I've started a section on the talk page about improving the article. Thanks for your help. --Mad Pierrot (talk) 22:56, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, it seems like you have made a good start. You may be able to find reliable sources using this useful tool, which filters out unreliable sources. You will still need to evaluate sources found with this against the reliable sources criteria. Also, you may find useful ideas on the style and preferred format at Wikipedia:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers. Jezhotwells (talk) 23:18, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] 12 Tribes related edits by Chezikah

Hello,

I'm finding that the edits by Chezikah (no user page) to be unproductive with articles related to a new religious movement. Based on that, I've reached out to him/her on both user talk page and the article discussion page to try and guide the edits into more constructive additions. I have received no response and want to avoid an edit war.

The editor appears to want to insert criticism of the the religious group as a cult. That could certainly be accomplished by adding a criticism section and giving proper citations. Edits like one where the bio infobox is "Mind control, no reasoning, racism, homophobia, lying and deception, beating of children" are repeated as is adding a list of critical External links which, not only don't apply to all the aticles, but are misformatted.

Another user, Jaybird vt shares similar concerns and should be included in this conversation.

Articles at Issue

• Elbert Eugene Spriggs
• The Twelve Tribes (movement)
• Yellow deli

Generally I take an inclusive appoach and try to work with other editors but am having trouble doing so in this case since my posts don't get replies. What would be an appropriate next step? Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide.RevelationDirect (talk) 03:36, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

• Comment : Often the emotional or connotation issues have to do with adjectives or rationalizing the credibility of sources you like. While no one would overtly or logically support genocide, you see America getting ready to celebrate it in a few days. But yet, if you described the 4th of July that way, people would be uphappy about POV. This tends to be an issue with word choice. Everyone believes in rules and wants some order, is spanking a beating? If you can stick to factual descriptions as much as possible, and let details remove adjectives, that would probably be a step in the right direction. Phobia versus prudent is based on speculation about risk-benefit. Predicting the future is hard but listing perceived risks and benefits, while may be not pleasant, is more constructive. No one, certainly no one receiving TARP money, considers the term "liar loan" to be grossly offensive even today and deception is admired by many. I'm not really sure what the difference between a religion, cult, or social group is but if you are just arguing over words you can even just attribute the source, " Source A says relgion[a] while b[b] claims they are a cult, whatever that means " So, there is some hope you can reduce it to an argument over source quality once adjectives and connotations yield to facts. Even in science, fact quality and inferences drawn, even when all parties nominally are interested in natural truths, can be quite difficult. But, in this case, since you don't need to settle and argument just document it, that may be less of an issue. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 10:20, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
• Comment : I have some reason to believe that this issue will not be resolved with mediation, but I am willing to try it. Chezikah (no user page) is not only a disgruntled ex-member of this group, but is the author of one of the sites being repeatedly reinserted into these articles: twelvetribes-ex.org. This, if I am correct, constitutes blatant self-advertising as well as POV pushing. I sincerely hope that this issue can be resolved; I want to be able to add my own insights to this group of articles, as I myself have had some involvement with this group and understand their theology on a deep level. I don't want to see my own contributions blanked out by a vengeful edit war. Here's to hoping some line of conversation can be established. Jaybird vt (talk) 14:45, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
• Comment : Thanks for your thoughts, Nerdseeksblonde. Whether emerging religions should be framed as a New Religious Movement (NRM) or a cult is a common discussion. There are a number of ways to accomodate divergent viewpoints along the lines of what you suggest. What I'm encountering here, is that Chezikah repeatedly posts the same thing over and over and has not engaged with my repeated requests to discuss on either user or discussion pages. I'm not sure how to avoid an edit war in that situation other than walking away and let the pages deteriate. Any thoughts on what else I could do to start that dialogue? ThanksRevelationDirect (talk) 17:35, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

• Comment : I do not want to be accused of edit-warring; I am very new to editing Wikipedia andI don't want to start off on the wrong foot. But in the interest of making relevant information available on a somewhat important religious group, I feel like I have to revert the malicious edits by Chezikah. At this point it becomes clear to me that this editor will not yield to requests for discussion or editor assistance. I have reported Chezikah for vandalism. I hope a few other editors feel similarly. Jaybird vt (talk) 01:43, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Trying to update our businesses wiki entry but am being told that I can edit the current entry.

BPAY (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Hi I am trying to update our businesses wiki entry but am being told that I can edit the current entry. It is for BPAY. What do you I do in this instance? I would like to put our own information on there.

Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by BPAY Official (talk • contribs) 07:35, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Righto. There are a few issues here. Your user name seems to indicate a conflict of interest on this matter. In fact your user name would appear to be in contravention of the Wikipedia user name policy. Wikipedia is not a directory or listings service, it is an encyclopaedia and various criteria on notability and reliable sourcing apply. Hope that this helps. Jezhotwells (talk) 09:02, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Username template left on user's talk page. Jezhotwells (talk) 09:12, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Our policy for handling conflicts of interest says "An editor with a conflict of interest who wishes to suggest substantive changes to an article should use that article's talk page. When making a request please consider disclosing your conflict of interest to avoid misunderstanding." So you can suggest changes at Talk:BPAY, and wait for other editors to update the article if they agree with the changes that you have proposed. Note that text copied directly from a company's promotional material is unlikely to be suitable for Wikipedia because (a) it will have an unencyclopedic style and (b) it is probably copyright material. Gandalf61 (talk) 09:19, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

User:Orangemike has now blocked User:BPAY Official. Jezhotwells (talk) 21:46, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamid_Arabnia

Hamid Arabnia (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Dear David (and/or others who can help): My name is Hamid Arabnia. I hope you can help me with this issue. Someone (and I know who) is being malicious by adding libellous statements to my wiki site at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamid_Arabnia This person (and his former students) have been attacking me for sometime now (posting malicious statements to various blogs, sending emails to 100's of others, ...). They have been vandalising me for sometime now. I do not wish to get into discussions with this person (he is now using wiki user names IPV2 and RIP MJ and I am sure he will be creating more accounts) because he knows that he is posting lies. The correct version of my wiki web site is the one that you kindly cleaned up on "05:46, 7 April 2009". I wonder if you can help with this situation. I would be most grateful. More information (in case you are interested) appears below. Kind regards, Hamid

---

The person who is attacking me has been organizing a conference in Orlando each year; he attacks worldcomp (this is the conference that I have been coordinating)by posting unfounded allegations such as posting to blogs that gibberish papers being accepted, ... He then refers to his own posts (and his former students) as reference. For your reference, worldcomp is a federated conference composed of many tracks. Many of its papers end up being published in journals (in special and regular issues); most recently, special issues were published in BMC Genomics (with impact factor above 4.0). PDPTA (which is an important track of worldcomp) has received 1,837 citations according to Libra Academic Search: http://libra.msra.cn/conf_category_24.htm Many world renowned scientists present lectures and tutorials at worldcomp (tracks of worldcomp include: ERSA, PDPTA, BIOCOMP, SERP, ICAI, ICWN, IPCV, ... in case you wish to search for them in various databases such as DBLP).Also, you can find the 2009 worldcomp conference schedule at (in case you wish to chek the conference out yourself): http://www.world-academy-of-science.org/worldcomp09/ws or http://www.world-academy-of-science.org/worldcomp09/ws/program Investigatewiki (talk) 09:49, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

• What? Maybe it is the lack of caffeine talking but let me see if I understand. You are happy that *your* wiki page was made "correct" and someone at a scientific conference is persecuting you AND vandalising your web page? While I can certainly believe all of this is possible, I'm at a loss on exactly what is requested and what is immediately relevant? Certainly this comes off as being a bit of a POV request especially given your alias but will concede you could have valid concerns as COI doesn't equate to POV. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 10:27, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Dear Nerdseeksblonde: Originally, the wiki page was created by someone (probably with good intentions)- but its content suffered from many mistakes and exaggerations. Not knowing how to delete the page (I am novice at this), I decided to re-write it. That is how I ended up with a wiki page! I have absolutely no problem if someone disputes the quality of a conference, journal, ... But they should be backed up with some sort of concrete evidence. The issue is that people can post libellous statements on various blogs and then cite them as evidence in other publications (such as wiki). This is what this person has been doing (first, some years ago, his attacks were by emails to individuals about me and then citing the statements posted on blogs as evidence). If someone is declaring that a gibberish paper is published/accepted in a conference, shouldn't they provide with the copy of acceptance notification + the paper that was accepted/published, ... as evidence? I guess originally what I was asking you was if anything can be done to stop this (which I consider to be harrassment). But I guess not. In any case, thank you for responding to my concern so fast - impressive. Investigatewiki (talk) 11:01, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Hamid

• Observations : I got some more coffee and went to the page in question. I found a blank page with an edit history of advert-BLP warring. I guess one thing that would help is a list of all sources ever cited, even the unreliable/blog ones for reference. Certainly the blank page is not helpful but I guess I could go through the revisions in the edit history. I'm not sure that posting links to scientific commentary would be libellous but I also don't know the legal or scientific criteria on which to decide a claim of "gibberish" ( facetious comment). Once the focus is on determination of who is right in an arugment over "I'm not the dummy, you are the dummy" you have lost sight of the interest in documenting a controversy rather than resolving it. Maybe you are all dummies, or not, it doesn't matter in a factual description. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 11:10, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Dear Nerdseeksblonde: Wonderful - I am so grateful to you. I can now sleep a little better. Blank page or even deleting the page would suit me just fine. Once again, thank you for taking the time to look into this. Investigatewiki (talk) 11:15, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Hamid

Ok, I see a few major problems with your base assumptions about wikipedia.

• First, you do not have a "wiki web site". The page you linked to was the wikipedia page about you. It is not yours and you have no rights over what goes in it. WP:OWN goes into more depth on this.
• Two, wikipedia is about verifiability, not truth. We cant simply take your word for it that X is false. I can tell you that George Bush smoked weed in his bathroom, and that I saw it with my own eyes, but that information has no place in wikipedia because it isn't verifiable. There are no sources to back it up.
• You cannot delete anything from wikipedia. Only administrators have that ability. You can edit the page, and remove the information, but it will never truely be deleted, unless an administrator deletes it, and removes it from the history.
• You must engage in discussion. That is one of the key priniciples that allows wikipedia to function. We collaborate on all our articles, and work together to ensure our articles are as good as they can be. If you refuse to engage in discussion with the people you are having disputes with, you have no place in wikipedia.

However, if the people posting this "libellous" information are indeed using blogs as the only sources, and you can provide sources to counter the information, then the information can be removed.Drew Smith What I've done 11:17, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the speedy reply and actions so far - I do appreciate it. I do understand that discussions with those who post on wiki pages is one of the important pillars behind wiki. But the person who is posting changes is posting lies; he knows it, and he knows that I know they are lies. So I know that discussions with this person would not help. Obviously, I can provide your office with copies of the printed published proceedings for yourself to see the caliber of the published papers (if it helps). Thank you for replying to my concerns. Investigatewiki (talk) 11:53, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Hamid

• Clarification: I wasn't supporting the blank page, just commenting it made it hard to know what was going on. In fact, I would probably support the appearance of responsible derogatory information. Controversial subjects can't be resolved here but they should be documented to get an interested started on a literature search for his own OR. If in fact the subject is notable, only the controversial subjects are really exciting. A scientific controversy would indeed make for an interesting article. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 11:23, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Nerdseeksblonde. what was added to the page was not a controversial scientific issue. The person who is posting it is simply harassing me. It can easily be documented when a conference accepts or publishes a "gibberish" paper (by providing a copy of the paper + acceptance notification + mail headers, ...) What he is claiming is a lie and he knows it. In any case, thank you for reading my messages.

• Comment : FWIW, many conferences don't do substantial peer review and hopefully they don't do personality or "character" or "motive" review. COI's in some cases need to be clearly reported- drug papers usually have prominent funding and other disclosures. In any case, a paper could be accepted because it could be debated, indeed the whole point of a conference is to get interaction on the topic. So, this could include fringe up to the point of being patent nonsense. I don't know you are anything about the unmentioned topic but don't come to too many conclusions based on what has been presented here. "Gibberish" can mean a lot of things as it is not too well defined but I've also mentioned "voodoo" come up between well regarded people in controversial areas. There is nothing wrong with debate :) Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 12:24, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I understand. But this person was referring to a blog which had stated that this conference had accepted the first MIT-computer-generated (ie, gibberish) paper. I do not know what FWIW is but I will search for it. Thank you Investigatewiki (talk) 12:31, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Hamid

• Oh : So you are the supposed reviewer on the paper? LOL. Don't look at my user page where I have linked to stories like this. OF course, you do also realize that it is easier to get authors to attend a conference than people who were rejected :) Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 12:53, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, of course - I do undertand that it is easier to get authors to attend than the ones whose papers are rejected. Investigatewiki (talk) 13:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC)Hamid

• LOL - I had to look and I found at least one post as you claim. Keep in mind that this is an area of growing concern and it is funny too but the business conflicts can be big problems. I may actually link to this site on my other page with example of fake or claimed fake peer reviews. I have a lot of sympathy but OTOH I was reading a "peer reviewed" journal article on cold bubble fusion. This is more credible by accepted theories than palladium based but the article in question IIRC has glaring order or magnitude problems like measured durations in milliseconds that should have been in nanoseconds. Typos happen but still... Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 14:56, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Nerdseeksblonde: Thank you. The most challenging problem has always been (and still is)cases of plagiarism and also cases in which authors claim/believe that "to the best of their knowledge, this algorithm/system/design is the best/most-efficient-..." that exist. Cases of plagiarism are handled by first, discussing the issue with the author. In many cases, the author claims (probably rightly so) that his/her co-author must have copied materials from somewhere (typically, people who are accused of such actions are students or young faculty). We then ask them to explain the actions that they will be taking to educate the person who is accused of such unethical behavior. More often than not, the person is forced to take an ethics course and writeup a report. In the past, this has worked fine except for one case (caught in 2008 - a journal paper) who had one single author who does not seem to understand how a particular "table" of results ended up in his paper! He has language difficulties and comes across to be extremely rude and unprofessional. A committee is still handling this situation (I am not in the loop). Regarding fake papers being accepted in conferences and journals: such matters can easily be documented. The person who claims that this has happened can easily post the submission data (a copy of the acknowledgement that systems send to authors who upload their papers to the review web sites) as well as the notification of acceptance + a copy of the paper. All this can then be checked against the real data received (by the systems support staff of the person who has been claiming such things). There was a case (that was on news/BBC and probably CNN some years ago)in which it was proven without any shadow of doubt that a particular conference (held in Florida/Orlando) had accepted a fake paper. It is quite easy to prove if a fake paper has been accepted. Unfortunately, it is even easier to be malicious and falsely claim that a conference has accepted a fake paper without providing any proof.

Investigatewiki (talk)Hamid

• ROFL: Have you used SCIGEN? I just authored another paper, should make it ok on grammar. You have to admit that it is thought provoking- this actually reads well, no one nouned the verbs or left confusing punctuation. May not mean anything but hey... btw, are you actually claiming to be the faculty guy in GA or is there an identity issue too? Fake conferences are an obvious way to make money and boost publication lists so I would be a bit careful about keeping credibility here and I want to go see the SCIGEN presentation session and ask questions. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:22, 29 June 2009 (UTC).

Hi again: Personally, I have not; but my students have. In fact, some of my former students (now faculty)have been communicating with the designers of SCIGEN/MIT about various linguistics-based algorithms (data mining, ...)SCIGEN is in fact a superb program; there is a lot of solid linguistic-based algorithms behind the design with solid foundation. Yes, indeed, I am a faculty member at GA (to check, you can call me - my tell number is posted on my web site); when I post, I use my real name (Hamid). Originally my biography wiki web site was created by someone with an IP address in Texas (he probably created the web site with good intentions) but the content suffered from exaggeration, many photos, and incorrect statements. I decided to correct the web site and DGG kindly corrected further to conform with the wiki policies. This is how I ended up with a wiki web site! (I really never felt that I am at a level/caliber to be in the encyclopedia). Thank you for your messages. Investigatewiki (talk) 18:02, 3 July 2009 (UTC)Hamid

[edit] User Supreme Deliciousness Removing Sourced Information

User SD again is removing reliably sourced information from article Atrash (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) are replacing it with unsourced information. Please help. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 10:08, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Right, neither of you are using the talk page of the article to discuss this. That is what the talk page is there for. It does appear that both Ashaman and Farid al-Atrash were born in Syria and came to Egypt in their childhood, so neither of you is wrong and neither entirely right. Please make an attempt to work together. message left on both of your talk pages. Jezhotwells (talk) 10:36, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] James DeVone: sniff test

• James DeVone (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

This article, besides being written poorly, seems supicious at best. Can someone take a look at it? tedder (talk) 04:11, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree, I have posted comments on the article page and left a talkback on the editor talkpage. Jezhotwells (talk) 10:26, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] COI and Copyright issues

[edit] Craig Sherman

• Craig Sherman (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Just wanted to get some assistance with editing this article. Would appreciate any advice/words of wisdom anyone could give me on it. (First article I'm working on) Cleaned up some promotional information within it...think it's good enough to stay? Stuartwork (talk) 20:54, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Notability still looks a little iffy to me. Most of the refs (all but 2?) appear to be self-refs or press release type stuff, so more reliable sources are necessary. I made some additional formatting tweaks. – ukexpat (talk) 21:33, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] bravo

wikipedia editors!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/technology/internet/29wiki.html?bl&ex=1246593600&en=7d023adc5bfa733a&ei=5087%0A

Dubravka —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dubravka021 (talk • contribs) 14:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

So, can anyone tell me when the Communists took over Taiwan? LOL Mr. Wales does claim to have not "cooperated" AFAIK but what was interesting was "deciding" that a source was "unreliable" under a desire to rationalize a given conclusion or action. While you are argue on this being good or bad, rationalization is a big problem that impedes growth in many fields when it masquarades as logic or reason. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 15:09, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm an administrator but was not involved. Interested readers may be able to access a free version of the article from this Google search. There is also mention at Kidnapping of David Rohde#Role of Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:12, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not even sure I understand this. With Taiwan the Communists just want to appear to be in control. With this, you are assuming that the kidnappers will get sympathy, as if people who wiped out Indians would get respect (LOL). POV is a very insidious problem and often of course "reliable" sources just parrot a party line. Freedom of speech is difficult to defend. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 18:13, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Links to my website

I am closing the website www.teresamay.com and have asked the webmistress to pull the site, i wish to show my official site as www.teresamay.org.uk Kindly change the link on the teresa may page to this as the other site is no longer authorised as my official website. I hope this matter can be resolved amicably if not I will have to take appropriate action as the mentioned website is no longer anything to do with me.

If you wish to email me my email is <redacted>

I have changed the link back to what I wish it to be. I repeat, www.teresamay.com is no longer my official site.

Thank you

Teresa may —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gogetemtreez (talk • contribs) 14:47, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Couple of points: We only have your word that you are who you say you are, but assuming that you are indeed Ms May, you have an obvious and huge conflict of interest and should not be editing the article about yourself. Please see WP:BIOSELF for advice about contacting the Foundation about your article. Alternatively please go to the article's talk page and open a discussion there about changes that you think should be made. You will need reliable sources to support any changes. I have reverted your most recent edits to a version that complies with WP:MOSBIO. I have removed your e-mail address above as this is a highly visible site on the internet and your address will be a spam magnet. – ukexpat (talk) 15:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Help with Dispute Resolution

The humanism article needs some attention from some editors with knowledge of Wikipedia's goals and policies. American Heritage Dictionary gives five widely varying definitions of the term (see http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?q=humanism&search=search ), and for several years, the status of this term on Wikipedia has been:

• AHD definitions 1, 2, 3 loosely grouped under the "humanism" article
• AHD definition 4 briefly mentioned under the humanities article
• AHD definition 5 has its own article at Renaissance humanism and connection to definition 1 mentioned in the humanism article
• Recently, an editor added a disambiguation page to direct readers to the different types of humanism, and added the appropriate hat-note to the article.

Over the past few years, one particularly tendentious editor attempts every few months to change the primary focus of the article, sometimes in favor of AHD definition 4, sometimes in favor of definition 5. Each time, I attempt to respond by showing the common use in best-selling books, news articles, magazines, web sites, and organizations applying the term to themselves is consistent with definition 1 instead. The tendentious editor has proposed moving the article and was voted down, so now he deletes his 3-revert warnings from his own talk page and attempts to create a consensus on other users' talk pages where his viewpoint will encounter no resistance, rather than on the article's own talk page. In general he seems to bring editors into the article who are abusive, argue by putting words into others' mouths, and recite their opinions over and over without providing evidence of verifiability.

The policies I feel the tendentious editor and those he brings into the discussion are breaking are these:

• WP:DICTIONARY: Wikipedia articles should begin with a good definition and description of one topic, however, they should provide other types of information about that topic as well. The full articles that the wikipedia's stubs grow into are very different from dictionary articles.
• Also at WP:DICTIONARY: "The same title for different things (homographs): are found in different articles."
• WP:VERIFY: "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—that is, whether readers are able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether we think it is true."
• WP:UNDUE: "Neutrality requires that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a reliable source, and should do so in proportion to the prominence of each. Now an important qualification: In general, articles should not give minority views as much or as detailed a description as more popular views, and will generally not include tiny-minority views at all. For example, the article on the Earth does not mention modern support for the Flat Earth concept, a view of a distinct minority."
• WP:PRIMARYTOPIC: "When there is a well-known primary topic for an ambiguous term, name or phrase, much more used than any other topic covered in Wikipedia to which the same word(s) may also refer, then that term or phrase should either be used for the title of the article on that topic or redirect to that article."
• WP:Naming conflict: "A number of objective criteria can be used to determine common or self-identifying usage: * Is the name in common usage in English? (check Google, other reference works, websites of media, government and international organisations; focus on reliable sources) * Is it the official current name of the subject? (check if the name is used in a legal context, e.g. a constitution) * Is it the name used by the subject to describe itself or themselves? (check if it is a self-identifying term)"

In an attempt to show a most common, most popular, and primary usage for the term "humanism," I've posted top lists of search results of best-selling books, web pages, multiple news sites, magazines, and organizations. In response, my repeated requests for evidence that AHD definition 1 is NOT the most popular use of "humanism" have been met only by occasional single web pages or books that were hand-picked specifically for their biased POV, rather than algorithmically selected for their popularity as Google, Amazon, Alexa, and the other sources I've cited.

Could someone who is familiar with the most popular use of the word "humanism" AND mindful of Wikipedia policies provide feedback? The focus of the article and its definitions have been established long before I came around, as evidenced by the contents of Template:Humanism, Outline of humanism, the categories to which the article belongs (Epistemology, Freethought, Humanism, Humanist Associations, Humanists, and Social theories), and the projects to which the article belongs (WikiProject religion, WikiProject atheism, and WikiProject philosophy). The continued attempts to change the focus of the article fit what WP:DISRUPT calls, "their edits occur over a long period of time; in this case, no single edit may be clearly disruptive, but the overall pattern is disruptive."

Thanks! Serpent More Crafty (talk) 18:28, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Doing... —S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 23:24, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Flat Earth : Since notability is the criterion, you are documenting what peopple think of thought. For looking at other articles, I find wiki pages on spontaneous generation, and presumably there are pages on alchemy, and other notable theories that a researcher could wish to investigate even though not widely held today. There would be nothing wrong with a page on theories of the origin of life that included a link to spontaneous generation or creationism ( the latter presumably has more support today than spontaneous generation). In the case of humanism, where the definition is debatable, you are just arguing about words not facts. Are you a humanist? Are you a good person? etc. If you just need to make a taxonomy of the different humanist cults, I imagine you run into selection bias- anyone can find hundreds of articles to support his own conclusion while you argue about which 99 or 101 are more credible en masse against the other group of 100 authors ( using numbers to make the rationalizations seem logical and scientific...). Is a merged article even pointless compared to say just a disambig pages with humanism_according_to_x, humanism_according_to_ama, etc? I guess with religions the group defines itself, presumably the Pope defines Catholics. Literally perhaps, you could give weight to the well-covered AHA but there are plenty of "defintions" from religious groups too. I appreciate that none of this helps, I'm just backing up a bit seeing if I am on the right track so far. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 02:24, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Editor keeps deleting my posts

I have submitted a brief explanation of Eric McDavid's appeal and time after time an editor has deleted it. I am new to posting on wikipedia so I did not fully understand how to correctly cite or reference my sources, but I have made the citing and referencing corrections and I have adjusted my post to fit the wikipedia guidelines. This editor claimed that, "A Motion to Appeal is NOT a reliable source." However, I believe it to be the ONLY reliable source regarding information pertaining to the appeal. I am not taking a stance as to the defendants guilt or innocence, I am simply providing the facts stated in the appeal. Please help me resolve this conflict.MReichel (talk) 22:34, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

• Comment : Apparently, your alias matches the lawyer mentioned in your controversial contribution. Furhter, there are several puffery items related to the lawyer, at least in the one version I checked. The citation is not fully documented ( please let everyone write to the PACER webmaster or higher-ups to change this, it is really silly to have a court system with an interface that is not automation friendly and the token payments discourage several investigations such as looking into this article). In the context of the larger article, it isn't clear what role this information would take but in present form it seems to be a bit much. I'm sure the other editor spotted your puffery and COI and probably reacted a bit strongly. In any case, there is a bias against primary sources in some contexts, although apparently medicine is magic since wiki seems to single this out as an area where primary sources are ok. In any case, assuming you could link to a free copy of the court documents, and it managed to get by the primary source OCD people, the comments you make about the documents would need to be quite limited, largely to things in secondary sources or otherwise "obvious" ( that dont't require original thought or hypotheses to be introduced). Simply citing the documents should be fine but the text is POV and a bit extensive. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 23:11, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

• Comment You should definitely read our guidelines - as the subject's lawyer you are bound to defend your client, and I highly doubt that this is in any way easily reconcilable with our neutrality guidelines. As such you should recuse yourself from editing an encyclopedia article about the subject. If you cannot, or indeed are prevented by your very position, from editing the article in impartial manner, then you should refrain from editing it at all. Instead you should present the material and links on the article talk page and let uninvolved editors make a decision on the material's suitability, notability and neutrality. Mfield (Oi!) 23:30, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

• Comment Certainly don't get into a double bind but we are not your parents nor a bar association. The end product, the contribution is what we need to evaluate. The problem with being too concerned about COI , rather than the result, is that it becomes difficult to get informed parties who can even put secondary sources into reasonable perspective. I have had fairly good luck approaching some business subjects ignorantly ( which are quite similar to legal issues and less aligned with scientific pursuits) , with information only from electronic sources, but those sources did tend to be SEC filings which are designed to be "encyclopedic" compared to most self-authored works from commercial organizations discussing themselves. My point being that the filings I used must have been more or less accurate as they allowed people to make certain predictions that came true. It is possible for an entity to present decent self-referrential works but quite difficult esp in an anon forum like this. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 23:54, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

• PS I got so taken with myself, I fogot the other example, the FDA. Had someone else not deleted my contribution, you could have read about this on the Dendreon page. I added a factual description of events leading to oncologists to perceive physical threats but my own cues to reader motivated people unfamiliar with material to delete it. In any case, the FDA needs experts but they are usually active in the field and have their own projects from which they hope to feed themselves. Yet, they do contribute to official FDA decisions that have some force behind them. You need to worry about the data or facts first, and consider COI or ad hominens when all else is lost. Normally the standard are towards disclosure, not disinterest. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 00:26, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

• Sympathetic though I am to my editor colleagues above, there are biography of living persons concerns here which, I think, do need scrutiny. Wikipedia articles should maintain a neutral point of view and where there is a dispute, give correct weight to the various sides of an argument. I think it best to invite further comment from the BLP noticeboard.—S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 20:23, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

• If the source is reliable and relates to information cited in the article then it is a valid source and should be referenced, in my opinion. It is always a bonus when content can be referenced and attributed with material that most Wikipedians can check, although I also understand that less readily available source material is certainly important when a case remains unreported. It might be wise to add references to content from news publications as well, if the appeal is reported - with links to online news websites mentioning the appeal. Overall, the actual appeal in this case appears to be primary source material and really should be referenced if the appeal is mentioned in the article. Everyone wants Wikipedia to be well regarded with good reference material - right? Frei Hans (talk) 09:39, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Jury Duty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_Duty_(TV_series)

i am the creator and producer of the tv show Jury Duty. Someone with the user name of ChrisP2K5 is writing false information about my show. I have changed it and they keep changing it to the false information. They are claiming that the show is cancelled and we purchased time on stations. That is completely false and I need your assistance to stop this.

Thanks, Vincent Dymon <redacted> —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vimon911 (talk • contribs) 23:27, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Per our verifiability guidelines, controversial claims, or claims with potentially legal ramifications need to be cited to reliable sources. It is inappropriate for an editor to be adding such claims without a reliable source to back them. I am warning the editor and will watch the page. The article also contains a large amount of other material that needs to be referenced anyway. Mfield (Oi!) 23:39, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

On another note, there has been no dialog on article talk about this, only a slow motion edit war. Both sides of this dispute should be engaging on talk and providing sources to back their sides of this dispute, not continuing a pointless revert war. Mfield (Oi!) 05:42, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Edit dispute on Project 86 page

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Project_86&action=history

Hi. I Would like to say that a editor called Schwabette77 is removing sourced information from the page. When I asked to the editor stop with this, he (or she) said the reason why, but not cited any proof, reliable source of what he said. Then, I come here for help, I reverted the edits that Schwabette77 done on that page. Thanks. (JoaquimMetalhead (talk) 01:23, 3 July 2009 (UTC))

Summary : From what I gathered looking at two recent versions, the debate hinges over a few adjectives related to being a "Christian" band, maybe the top picture, and a quote from a band member explaining the religious aspect of their group. The quote is rather extensive but presumably the source is reliable for documenting how the group views and describes itself. You get some real zealots on these things but paragraph size quotes do come up from time to time and you would need to consider relevance and POV issues as at some point presenting a monologoue from the group ( or one of their critics ) would be more of an advertisement/soapbox than an encyclopedic description. Offhand, the ideas don't seem worthy of being yanked unless grossly wrong (I'm assuming the band describes itself as religious ) but edit for POV may make more sense. What wiki guidelines or other reasons did the redactor give ? Personally, if I find an informed contributor I tend to not yank whole sections of text especially if ignorant of the subject myself but some people take the bold editing thing a bit far...( note, I'm really tired and unlike SCIGEN my grammor deteriorates alohng with typing- if missed something please correct ). Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 02:06, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Wiki Page title: "On First looking into Chapman's Homer.

I put my edit in the wrong section.

My edit is: Frances Power Cobbe, The Peak in Darien: an octave of Essays. Boston. 1882.

This should have gone into the section called, "References to this Poem" instead it has gone into the general "References" section. Can you fix?

Frances Power Cobbbe has a wiki page that could be linked to although this book is not listed there.

Many thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.250.16.85 (talk) 10:15, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

OK, moved as requested and confirmed with refs. . dave souza, talk 11:41, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

§yu§u —Preceding unsigned comment added by Europabio (talk • contribs) 15:31, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Europabio

Hi,

I am the Europabio's communication manager and I tried to update our logo but I can not do it. Each time I try it is said that I am not the administrator so they won't let me change it. I imagine that someone makes himself the administrator. Can you help me out by telling me how I can fix this? I need to change it really soon, that is pretty urgent.

Thanks for your help,

Best regards,

A.C —Preceding unsigned comment added by Europabio (talk • contribs) 15:35, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Right, firstly your username is in violation of Wikipedia policy. You may request a change of name at Wikipedia:Changing_username. As a new editor you cannot upload images yet. Jezhotwells (talk) 15:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Help requested to add Template documentation

Template:Culture of Oceania (edit|[[Talk:Template:Culture of Oceania|talk]]|history|links|watch|logs) Help! This template is based on Template:Navbox but it has no documentation page; I think it is appropriate to transclude Template:Navbox/doc but I am confused how to do that. Assistance with this will be very appreciated. Thank you. Newportm (talk) 18:44, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] false prophets repeated deletion without comment

On the page "false prophets" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_prophet a group of people claiming to be wiki editors have repeatedly, summarily deleted my posts with no reason or vague claims like NPOV or references not appropriate. This includes direct quotes from the bible and the addition of modern day false prophets like David Koresh and Joseph Smith. Additionally they have tried to limit the discussion to Christian, Jewish and Islamm prophets.This is clearly bigoted. The definition of false prophet is abundantly clear from the words themselves; someone who makes a prophesy which turns out to be false. Joseph Smith's own mormon church admits he made prohesies which did not come true. My reference is from a mormon.

They refuse to discuss this on the approriate pages and delete my npov marker for thei extremely biased viewpoint. I believe it is clear and obvious that this page is appropriate for:

1. A discussion of anyone who made false prophesies. 2. not limited to Christians, Jews and muslims.

BMcC333 (talk) 22:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)BMcC333

In this edit, you (perhaps unintentionally) blanked content the page had before. The best forum for discussing specific changes to this page is Talk:False prophet. Please continue your constructive editing and thank you for improving Wikipedia. Newportm (talk) 23:06, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I have made severall attempts to discuss this and the only response has been blanket deletions. Why is a web link given as a primary source but my web reference called inappropriate? Did you read the discussion page?

his church with claims that there are parts of it missing? 1st the LDS tried to claim they don't exist at all, and then when a museum comes up with them, they try to claim there are other parts missing?? The Museum of Modern Art is a very objective source. They know if they have all of a collection or a fragment of a collection. They have been in the collection business a long long time. The inventory of a museum belongs in an encyclopedia long before the pure speculation of other papyri with no proof whatsoever that they exist. http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=a8c1d7630a27b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.114.95.219 (talk) 03:38, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

BMcC333 (talk) 23:18, 3 July 2009 (UTC)BMcC333

There is such brilliant logic that to an atheist all prophets are false?? Does wiki approve content based on fringe groups? unsigned by BMcC333 (talk)

You don't seem to understand our underlying principles, which include a neutral point of view and "no original research". Your edits routinely violated these principles, which are not to be compromised in favor of your personal beliefs. This is a cooperative project, in which we Christians are no more privileged than Hindus, atheists, Wiccans, Muslims, Scientologists or anybody else. --Orange Mike | Talk 23:31, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, the term is often used colloquially as an insult or colorful reference to a secular person who makes a prediction that is grossly wrong- in any case I wouldn't be suprised if you get more opinions than facts "contributed" and I would imagine some "neutral" text may help but it will probably come down to "balance" between competing POV's - this may be fine as long as the article doesn't attempt to "pick the right one." Maybe a passing comment or even disambig page may help. The general idea of the name suggests that a prophet is judged true or false the same way a scientific theory is judged- does it/he have predictive value( even today getting people to think about testability is difficult ). You can't do controlled tested on a prophecy, but you wait if it is specific enough to be shown true or false. In the religious context, probably most people associate with the more popular religions and since notability is an odd popularity contest ( vocal opponents make the topic "popular" LOL) those would probably be given more representation than "fringe" beliefs. I did note a lot of quotes and some people object to this- with a little care and editing however personally it would make sense to go to the source which is authoritative for the POV being described ( again, you don't want to support or refute it, just document it ). I don't think anyone will claim the Bible is copyright vio but some paraphrases and things like NIV notes are protected. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 00:31, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Disposophobia vs Compulsive Hoarding.

Hello Editors:

I have a problem need your good advice.

When a web suffer looks for the meaning of Disposophobia on Wiki it is forwarded to "Compulsive or chronic Hoarding".

As the creator of the word Disposophobia over 10 years ago I have a serious issue that Wikipedia has defined this word as "Chronic Hoarding." Nothing could be further from the truth. As a matter of fact Disposophobia and Disposophobic is a trade/service mark of Disaster Masters (R) Inc. as clearly claimed on this page.

www.theplan.com/clegal.htm

Virtually every normal human has some form of Disposophobia and on the far end of a normal Disposophobic's scale is hording which is about one percent or less.

My question is how do I interrupt or disengage the forwarding of Disposophobia and create a new Wiki page that clearly defines this word as I intended it to be on the internet?

Thanks for your prompt attention to this important issue.

I can always be reached by phone at <redacted>

Ron Alford Speaker, Author, Consultant Creator Disposophobia Disaster Masters Clutter Masters Thought Masters —Preceding unsigned comment added by Icanplan (talk • contribs) 15:39, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Open a discussion on the talk page of the Compulsive hoarding article. You obviously have a conflict of interest with respect to this issue, so you will need to provide references to reliable sources to support any changes you want to make. Also, be very careful that your comments do not cross the line into legal threats - not saying they will but issues relating to use of registered trademarks can cross the line. – ukexpat (talk) 16:17, 4 July 2009 (UTC)