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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography

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Criminal justice portal
This page is part of WikiProject Criminal Biography, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed library of criminal-related biographical articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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  1. Feb 2007 – Current

Contents

[edit] Kjell Inge Røkke

Is this person a criminal? Should the article carry this project's banner and categories for criminals be applied? An editor has made recent edits that may conflict with consensus. __meco (talk) 07:32, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Generally, the infobox that is used on an article is geared toward what the person is predominantly known for and what brought him notability. Whether a person is known as criminal depends a lot on the level of legal conflict a person has had. Frankly, looking at what the crime was, the length of time in jail, and the relative importance of the legal problem, I'm inclined to say he wouldn't qualify for a criminal infobox. If Donald Trump went to jail for 24 days for something like getting an illegal license, he would not have a criminal infobox slapped on his article as a result. Having said that, I would have to point out that I see nothing that even approaches consensus about anything on that page. There has never been a discussion on the article page at anytime. Someone came onto the article, made the only edit ever made by the account and put a criminal infobox on the article. Three months later, someone takes it out, saying he's not a criminal. In the three months between, two people edited the article. There's nothing regular on that page, much less consensus. Lack of objection because of little interest from other editors doesn't constitute consensus. However, there are some WP:BLP issues on the page, such as the unreferenced statement that he had no secondary or higher education and what reads to me as a bit of a skewing of the actual offense and conviction toward making it sound a lot more serious than the actual source indicates. I would think editors might try to flesh out the main parts of the article, it is very scarce. Wildhartlivie (talk) 08:52, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
I wasn't referring to consensus on that page but to what threshholds the Wikipedia community in general is practicing. However, you have provide a thorough discussion and I am less queasy about the state of this article than I was prior to making my inquiry here. Much appreciated. __meco (talk) 07:55, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Mr Røkke is a respected businessman in Norway, that he has a well known but rather minor sentence on him does not change that. I have not argued for removing information regarding the sentence as the media attention to the case was heavy, so it should definitely be mentioned in the article. But that does not make him a criminal, just as a trip on a ferryboat does not make one a seaman. So the infobox for criminal and the category criminal should be removed. Ulflarsen (talk) 20:13, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
This is not the appropriate place to continue the discussion about whether this person should have a criminal infobox or categories. Please keep it on the article talk page. momoricks (make my day) 23:22, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
I disagree. I came here for expert opinions, i.e. to solicit the opinions of people who might have been involved in similar discussions in the past. As long as a link exists between these two discussion loci (and it does) this should pose no problem. __meco (talk) 07:49, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Editor removing references/external links

Don't know if anyone's noticed but User:Evenmoremotor has been removing a lot of references and external links under the Wikipedia:External links policy. It seems like he's removing any and all websites regardless of the content as well as links to GanglandNews.com and other "fan sites". What caught my eye was his removing published books from reference sections and moving them under further reading or removing them altogether ("no in-line refs"). As a writer, I think this is particularly dishonest but I'll let others judge for themselves. Hope someone can look into this. 71.184.32.168 (talk) 19:01, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Porrello/Porello family

I've just added an image to the Porello family article and clearly there is a spelling conflict. Rick Porrello, author of references cited in the article and said to be a direct descendant of the family, spells his name with a double r on his own website and that is the way it is spelled in the article, yet the family name is spelled with one r. The photo I have just added, of the family grave marker, has two r's. The name is also spelled with two r's on Joe Porrello's death certificate. I'm not a Mafia expert, is there any reason for the single r in the article title and in the text? Dan D. Ric (talk) 17:58, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

No idea here. That question might better be answered at the article's talk page by editors who work on the page. Wildhartlivie (talk) 02:48, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
I had thought about putting it there, but since no one but myself and a bot has made any edit to the article since last July I thought the chances of it being addressed were greater here. I can move the discussion there if it is considered out of place here. Dan D. Ric (talk) 05:42, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
No, it isn't out of place here at all. However, not a lot of discussion about articles in the mob category happens here. However, it does appear to be a misspelling and I note the original author, who doesn't appear to be around anymore, had a lot of spelling errors corrected. If you really feel the name is not spelled correctly, the article can be moved to the correct spelling and the names corrected throughout the page. Wildhartlivie (talk) 06:25, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to start changing the spelling within the article then, in preparation for moving it. There aren't a lot of links to the article so the move shouldn't be too big a deal. Dan D. Ric (talk) 16:26, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

You don't really have to worry about the links to the article, when you do the move, the links should redirect to the new page, unless you feel the need to check the spelling there too. Good luck. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Wildhartlivie (talk) 17:41, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
It's the spellings on the links that I'll change. Dan D. Ric (talk) 20:29, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Oklahoma City bombing A-class review

Hello, I have worked on Oklahoma City bombing to help it attain GA status in the past. After cleaning up the references and adding additional sources, I am now nominating Oklahoma City bombing for A-class review. Since this project doesn't have a formal A-class review, I've looked to the guidelines of the A-class criteria. For the article to reach A-class, two uninvolved editors need to support the nomination. I'm welcoming all comments on how to improve the article further, with the future goal of making the article a FA at some point. I'd be happy to take as many reviews as possible as each one could help to improve the article further. If you have any questions, please let me know on my talk page. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 08:23, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

A little over a month later, and this is still open if anyone is interested in taking a look at the article. The article needs two supports to attain A-class status. I would appreciate any assistance in reviewing the article. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 05:16, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Suitable categories for new articles? And BLP issues

I'm not familiar with the parameters of this wikiproject or its associated categories; just wanting to advise that I just added this WP's template and also WP:Canada/BC to Red Scorpions, Bacon Brothers (gangsters), and United Nations (gang), which are an interlinked series of stories/individuals relating to a recent gang war and "civilian casualty killings" in BC's Lower Mainland; I had a quick look at the subcats of Category:Crime and realized I was out of my depth in knowing how many and which ones to add to each of these articles; I placed "mid" on the the importance for all of them because of the immediacy of the arrests and the associated string of killings; these stories are still in progress despite a number of arrests being made some are still at large. NB Talk:Red Scorpions had apparently been previously deleted for the reason "attempt to communicate", but I re-instated it in order to place the WP templates....just thinking, I'd better go back and place WP:BLP on them too.....or maybe not, though they do constitute biographies of living persons....but not as individuals....maybe there's a guideline for that? My gut feeling tells me, at least in the case of the Bacon Brothers, that it's as much a biography as a crime article; but if that's the case then tthat would apply to the other two gangs ,as well, since living persons are who the article is about....Skookum1 (talk) 22:49, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the templates to these articles. I'll take a look at what categories we have that might apply here. Regarding BLP, if an article is about specific persons, even multiple ones, or contains information about living persons, BLP tags should be added. I added the BLP to the Bacon Brothers - although I'm thinking that article may need to be moved to Bacon brothers per naming conventions. Wildhartlivie (talk) 23:34, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Request for comment at 1985 Rajneeshee assassination plot

Please see Talk:1985_Rajneeshee_assassination_plot#RfC:_High-ranking_followers. Thank you for your time, Cirt (talk) 01:29, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Internet homicide

Some input here may be useful. Current topics of dispute include how much is original research and where (or whether) the sources suffice, whether the page ought to be an article, a list, or a disambig. Whether the article should be renamed and/or the scope of the article changed. Шизомби (talk) 02:41, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Merge discussion

Please see Talk:Rajneesh_movement#Merge_discussion. Cirt (talk) 08:25, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography/Article alerts

This page appears to only have alerts for Criminal Biography articles, despite the title suggesting Crime articles are also included. Possibly this should be corrected, or is there a reason for this? Шизомби (talk) 21:53, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

It should be generating two pages, or one combined page. The project page has requests under both banners, so I'll post a question to see if there is some problem with the post. Wildhartlivie (talk) 22:22, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
In the "about this page" it just says "It contains all articles in workflows which are tagged with {{WP Criminal}}." It doesn't say anything about the {{WikiProject Crime}} tag, could that be part of the problem? Шизомби (talk) 00:12, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
It indicates the problem, which is why I posted to the alerts talk page to have someone involved there to straighten it out. Perhaps someone thought it was a double request, when it was supposed to cover both banners. Not a lot of projects use more than one banner. Wildhartlivie (talk) 00:28, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Infobox Criminal NEW

Someone needs to have a look at this template and it may need to be looked at. The text starts from under the infobox and I want that to change. This template needs to be discussed. Aussieman92 (talk) 10:04, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I have no idea what you mean by "The text starts from under the infobox". Are you referring to layout? Is that an issue you are having with the infobox that is currently being used or this new one you've made? If there is a layout problem, that's entirely different from the infobox and wouldn't be addressed by making a infobox when there is no consensus that there is a problem with the old one. Problems with the infobox you've created would be discussed at another board, or could even be related to the browser you use.

This is the place to bring a template that you feel is correct to offer for consideration and discussion about actually using it. You won't find coders or anyone similar at the project, we are concerned with the facets pertaining to articles and the tools to work on those. At present, the project has three infoboxes to use, depending on whether it is about a criminal organization (read that mob), criminal biographies and other crime-related articles. There has been no discussion of which I'm aware that there are problems or issues with the tools we already have. Wildhartlivie (talk) 21:23, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I have managed to fix the infobox a bit. The reason why the text would start under the infobox was because of this text (<div style="clear:both;"></div>). Aussieman92 (talk) 10:01, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Alleged fabrication of the Nanking Massacre - nominated for deletion

Alleged fabrication of the Nanking Massacre has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alleged fabrication of the Nanking Massacre. 76.66.202.139 (talk) 06:06, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] GA Sweeps invitation

This message is being sent to WikiProjects with GAs under their scope. Since August 2007, WikiProject Good Articles has been participating in GA sweeps. The process helps to ensure that articles that have passed a nomination before that date meet the GA criteria. After nearly two years, the running total has just passed the 50% mark. In order to expediate the reviewing, several changes have been made to the process. A new worklist has been created, detailing which articles are left to review. Instead of reviewing by topic, editors can consider picking and choosing whichever articles they are interested in.

We are always looking for new members to assist with reviewing the remaining articles, and since this project has GAs under its scope, it would be beneficial if any of its members could review a few articles (perhaps your project's articles). Your project's members are likely to be more knowledgeable about your topic GAs then an outside reviewer. As a result, reviewing your project's articles would improve the quality of the review in ensuring that the article meets your project's concerns on sourcing, content, and guidelines. However, members can also review any other article in the worklist to ensure it meets the GA criteria.

If any members are interested, please visit the GA sweeps page for further details and instructions in initiating a review. If you'd like to join the process, please add your name to the running total page. In addition, for every member that reviews 100 articles from the worklist or has a significant impact on the process, s/he will get an award when they reach that threshold. With ~1,300 articles left to review, we would appreciate any editors that could contribute in helping to uphold the quality of GAs. If you have any questions about the process, reviewing, or need help with a particular article, please contact me or OhanaUnited and we'll be happy to help. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 06:46, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Misc. Importance, BLP, possible GA/FA

Wikipedia_talk:Biographies_of_living_persons#BLP_policy_applies_to_people_doing_life_in_prison_too_I_guess discusses convictions and BLP policy - it really doesn't say much of anything new IMHO.

I came here originally to let you know that the importance ranking for your project for Bernard Madoff has been changed to "TOP" I couldn't figure out how the importance ranking is given (or whether it is of any importance) but I'd thought I'd let you know, also I agree with this ranking.

I noticed in the stats on the project page that you have few GAs and no FAs. The Madoff articles are prime candidates for one of these, or at least will be in a few months when all the furor has died down. There are lots and lots of documentation/sources - too much in fact, although of course not all the info that you really want.

Let me know in mid summer if anybody is interested in jumping through the required hoops.

Smallbones (talk) 15:11, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree, there's nothing new in that discussion. We should be mindful of WP:BLP even in criminal articles and things should be validly sourced. I think that at this point, Madoff would qualify as a top priority as well. In a lot of cases, the priority rating is essentially a matter of prominence of the person/situation, the news coverage it received, the impact and ... assessor opinion. Thanks for letting us know! Wildhartlivie (talk) 20:46, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Strip search prank call scam

Requesting a reassessment of the current "Start" rating. Viriditas (talk) 10:35, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Oklahoma City bombing FAC

I have nominated Oklahoma City bombing at WP:FAC which can be found here. Please consider leaving comments at the nomination to determine if the article meets the featured article criteria. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 22:30, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] West Memphis 3

Anyone feeling particularly masochistic? If so, consider heading over to this page. It's got it all—POV, OR, lack of reliable sources/proper citations, a beefy trivia section—and I haven't looked at the biographical articles. I'm trying to clean up the citations, which will take me awhile. momoricks 02:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not quite that masochistic tonight, but I may be in a day or two. Wildhartlivie (talk) 05:48, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Crime_and_Criminal_Biography"
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